LIVE BLOG: City Council Meeting for September 18, 2017

Published on by Adam A. Donaldson

The first report from the first service review comes to council for discussion tonight. You can click here for the agenda from City Hall, and you can click here to read Politico’s preview of tonight’s meeting. For the complete blow-by-blow of tonight’s council meeting, you can follow me on Twitter, or follow along below via Storify.

by
Adam A. Donaldson
Tue, Sep 19 2017 02:05:20

Guelph City Council Meeting – September 18, 2017

Live blog from the meeting starting at 7 pm

  1. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Settle in, tonight’s special council meeting might get interesting. We being in 15 minutes…

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 22:46:08

  2. Members of @CupeLocal241 are here. There's concern that the service review will lead to privatization. https://t.co/8mqtgRZQE0

    Members of @CupeLocal241 are here. There’s concern that the service review will lead to privatization. pic.twitter.com/8mqtgRZQE0
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 22:48:59

  3. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Members had a protest outside city hall earlier, but they had to leave their placards and signs outside the council chamber.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 22:50:40

  4. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    A camera is set for an overflow room, but there’s still plenty of seats inside the council chambers.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 22:51:20

  5. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In case you forgot/missed it, here’s what we’re talking about tonight:  https://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2017/09/review-says-solid-waste-is-competitive.html …

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 22:51:59

  6. cityofguelph

    City of Guelph@cityofguelph
    #guelphcouncil meeting starts at 7. Watch the livestream on http: http://guelph.ca/livestream 

    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 22:58:15

  7. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie says council is running late with their closed meeting. We’ll be another 10 minutes till start (he hopes).

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:06:23

  8. 18 minutes later, we’re still waiting for council to start. pic.twitter.com/MehTBFNBRN
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:19:53

  9. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Oh, council is entering the chambers now…

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:20:17

  10. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie calls the meeting to order.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:22:37

  11. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Closed session on material recovery facility findings: Council received info and “wholesome” discussion was had.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:23:39

  12. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bob Bell sends regrets tonight, otherwise it’s a full house (of councillors).

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:24:24

  13. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    DCAO Stewart offers opening remarks.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:24:39

  14. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    FYI: Council not being made to ask decisions tonight, no staff recommendations being made.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:25:16

  15. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart notes that 5 out of 6 areas in solid waste are meeting or exceeding service levels compared to other area municipalities.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:26:36

  16. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Tomoko King, Manager Corporate Project Management Office, is now addressing council

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:27:18

  17. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    King is outlining how and why the service reviews are being done.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:29:52

  18. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    King says they’re “learning a great deal” about the service review process. Remember, these 3 are still pilot projects for the City.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:30:42

  19. cityofguelph

    City of Guelph@cityofguelph
    A couple glitches with the live stream of #guelphcouncil meeting. Thanks for your patience

    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:31:29

  20. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Peter Busatto, General Manager of Environmental Services, is now going over the results so far.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:31:30

  21. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Busatto says they’re currently in the “identify and improve” stage of the review. More info on that will be coming forward later this fall.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:32:56

  22. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Busatto says that CUPE was engaged early and they were asked to take part in the process. Notes many CUPE members here tonite.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:33:58

  23. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff plays an important role sharing their experience, perspectives and ideas in the final phase of the review. – Busatto

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:34:26

  24. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dillon Consulting of Kitchener was hired to help conduct the review. Guelph was compared to 12 municipalities for the review.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:36:59

  25. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    King is back to go over benchmarks.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:38:25

  26. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guelph’s costs for drop off is on par or lower as compared to other municipalities, but the data used to reach that assumption inexact.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:45:21

  27. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We’re up to the big one: the Material Recovery Facility. The cost of operating the MRF is $4.86 million, revenue = $2.75M. Diff = $2.11M

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:49:50

  28. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    All but one of the comparator municipalities are making profits from their MRF, but Guelph is paying more.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:50:39

  29. King says further analysis is being done https://t.co/ucGweEkHFd

    King says further analysis is being done pic.twitter.com/ucGweEkHFd
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:51:41

  30. In conclusion: https://t.co/dZA0alyRL0

    In conclusion: pic.twitter.com/dZA0alyRL0
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:52:10

  31. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now it’s time for questions from council. Cllr MacKinnon asks if the other municipality losing money on MRF is single stream?

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:53:31

  32. Yes, it is a single-stream (as is Guelph). https://t.co/d4VOWRRGfu

    Yes, it is a single-stream (as is Guelph). pic.twitter.com/d4VOWRRGfu
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:54:57

  33. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Piper asking if there’s some reason the comparator municipalities aren’t identified in the report.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:55:35

  34. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    DCAO Stewart says none of them wanted to be identified, didn’t want to get into “trouble” back home (if there was trouble)…

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:56:21

  35. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings asks if residual wastes costs includes organics. It does.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:58:01

  36. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    DCAO Stewart says there’s a lot of detail that they haven’t compiled yet.

    Mon, Sep 18 2017 23:59:57

  37. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks about “significant legislative changes” from the province, asks if staff has any follow-up.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:03:21

  38. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: Nothing that would be helpful to this conversation.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:03:37

  39. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The dilemma, says Stewart, but notes legislation may not be in effect until 2019. “It would be nice if we could give you more detail…”

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:04:31

  40. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Salisbury asks why there isn’t 13 bars if we have 12 comparators?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:05:34

  41. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Not all 12 have the same service or level of service, says staff.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:05:53

  42. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says that makes sense for hazardous waste, but don’t all 12 collect waste?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:06:32

  43. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The consultant from Dillon says some elements were not comparable. Wasn’t appropriate to compare to Guelph.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:07:31

  44. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks about rationale of choosing 5 from the list of 12.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:10:21

  45. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    2 for similar service, and 2-3 that have different delivery approaches. Dillon wanted a good mix to compare to, says consultant.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:11:12

  46. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says he’s worried about statistical bias. The 2 math nerds following this thread can now high-5!

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:11:56

  47. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Consultant says in the case of hazardous waste, it’s a small element of waste disposal, so they were fine with two.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:13:23

  48. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks, aren’t we here to see where we are as compared to other municipalities?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:13:54

  49. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    More Data, please? (shorter Salisbury).

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:14:22

  50. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    DCAO Stewart notes that some municipalities have rural collection (for example) kind of pointless in the case of Guelph.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:15:10

  51. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart promises the final report will satisfy.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:15:30

  52. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “We all want to sleep at night together.” – Guelph DCAO @_S_Stewart.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:17:18

  53. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Allt assures this is not about looking at staff downsizing, but looking for efficiencies. Concerned that report isn’t forward looking

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:18:25

  54. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says they may have to look at other municipalities with newer equipment, and that will be part of the next phase.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:20:07

  55. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart thinks that Guelph can influence the province if we’re able to streamline and make our own MRF operation efficient

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:25:56

  56. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks whether Guelph sorts better than Simcoe?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:29:35

  57. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says he has no way to answer that tonite, will have to do more audits with Simcoe, which may or may not be an answer.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:30:13

  58. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gibson says he’ll hold Qs in order to get to delegates. 2 speakers left, says mayor.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:31:09

  59. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gordon asks if the environmental value was calculated.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:31:36

  60. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says Guelph has the benefit of having no landfill site, doubts Gordon is getting calls asking for a new landfill.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:32:51

  61. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says Guelph has the benefit of having no landfill site, doubts Gordon is getting calls asking for a new landfill.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:32:51

  62. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Downer notes that Guelph once spent $10M looking for a new landfill until the legislation changed…

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:37:06

  63. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says watch for Feb 2018. Prov may want to change blue box program, and other changes. City should look to continuous improvement

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:37:45

  64. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Van Hellemond asks if council can get more info on how comparators (in some cases) do more more less.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:38:36

  65. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says that will come forward in the later report.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:38:48

  66. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now on to the first of 5 delegations. This one is Paul Clulow, president of @CupeLocal241

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:39:53

  67. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clulow: CUPE has a lot of experience dealing with consequences of privatization. “Not a pretty story.”

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:40:42

  68. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clulow: Improving the MRF has to be done with the appreciation of public services.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:42:15

  69. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clulow asks council to not make decisions prematurely. Notes that Dillon said they could not compare apples to apples.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:44:34

  70. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clulow just got the 30 second warning. Caught off guard by that ding.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:45:14

  71. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clulow says 47 people work in the MRF, nobody wants to see those jobs move out of the community. “We want good jobs,” he says.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:47:10

  72. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Applause for Clulow as he wraps up presentation, urges council to take their time with a decision.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:47:56

  73. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clulow says solutions will come from frontline workers, can’t get better changes from people coming in from the outside.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:49:29

  74. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie hates saying it, but asks the gallery not to clap.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:49:51

  75. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up is @cupejfd AKA: Janice Folk-Dawson.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:50:35

  76. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Folk-Dawson says labour in Guelph is looking to council to be leaders in keeping public employees.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:51:44

  77. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    JFD says that the report leaves out a lot of details. If there are problems with MRF, how they be addressed in non-privatization way?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:53:05

  78. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No questions for Folk-Dawson, Andrew Cleary, prez of ATU 1189 up next.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:55:32

  79. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cleary commends members of CUPE 241, and says we’ll try to keep all our services public.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:57:48

  80. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “There’s nothing more important than the team,” says Cleary.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 00:59:32

  81. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Last delegate is Ted Pritchard or the Fair Tax Campaign. (Marty Williams and Pat Fung on the list, but not here).

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:00:28

  82. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Pritchard says he’s a taxpayer, meaning he helps employ City workers, and he wants to keep it a union shop.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:01:12

  83. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Ted Pritchard talked about the Fair Tax Campaign on the Guelph Politicast last fall.  https://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2016/11/guelph-politicast-57-ted-pritchard-fair.html …

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:01:52

  84. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie suggests council get everything out in the open now so there are no regrets later.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:08:35

  85. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gibson points out that regulatory changes, Guelph is already lagging by $150 per tonne on processing solid waste.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:11:12

  86. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says that he passed on written submissions to staff on Friday, and asked to prepare responses for final report.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:13:00

  87. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says he respects the anonymity of comparators, but would like more detail about them.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:14:18

  88. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury also asks to separate the single and two-stream MRFs in the completed report.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:15:32

  89. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper says #Guelph has one of the highest diversion rates in Ontario, but we may not be making $$ on stuff pulled off the line…

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:18:46

  90. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper also asks when front line workers will be engaged again?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:19:02

  91. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    MacKinnon moves receipt of the report.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:20:45

  92. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland points out the good news. Guelph doing well on 5 out of 6 of the areas remember?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:21:09

  93. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks about timing crunch. Can this be done by November?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:22:03

  94. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says it has to because there have to be some considerations for the budget.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:22:26

  95. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland follows up on Pritchard delegation: was the solid waste master plan consulted?

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:23:24

  96. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: It was in their thoughts, but this was a service review and not a master plan review.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:23:45

  97. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland: I’m up for any challenge.
    Guthrie: Bench press 300 lbs.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:25:36

  98. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says we can’t avoid elephant in the room (privatization), would like that addressed in the report in “a delicate was as it can.”

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:26:28

  99. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks if its possible to see divergent percentages from municipalities that are contracting out.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:29:32

  100. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: volume of recyclables is increasing, but the weight is staying the same. It’s measured by weight.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:30:10

  101. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Divergent rate right now is 59 per cent, exact tonnage unavailable off top of staff’s head.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:31:07

  102. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie notes that council was told there would be a drop in diversion following switch to bins from bags. (Can’t see thru bins yo!)

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:31:56

  103. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says he appreciate commentary from Cleary about how service review is helping to see how city can be more efficient…

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:33:33

  104. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    …also, it’s a good point that Guelph meeting standards on 5 out of 6 areas. That came from consultant, so can’t be too suspicious of them

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:34:30

  105. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says they’re meeting with solid waste staff on monthly basis, internal internet forums too. Staff consult is ongoing.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:35:28

  106. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says there’s 3 outcomes possible: 1) we’re good, 2) good and can do better, 3) not good.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:37:03

  107. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says he’s in favour of *all options* until final report comes back. Discounting one option is a disservice to gov responsibilities.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:37:51

  108. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Report accepted 12-0.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:38:04

  109. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Meeting adjourned, and that’s a wrap.

    Tue, Sep 19 2017 01:38:21

 

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