LIVE BLOG: City Council Meeting for April 24, 2017

Published on by Adam A. Donaldson

It will be a very busy night at city council complete with the pivotal debate on internet voting in the 2018 municipal election. You can click here for the amended agenda from City Hall, and you can click here to read Politico’s preview of tonight’s meeting. For the complete blow-by-blow of tonight’s council meeting, you can follow me on Twitter, or follow along below via Storify.

by
Adam A. Donaldson
Tue, Apr 25 2017 13:53:09

Guelph City Council Meeting – April 24, 2017

Live blog from the meeting starting at 6:30 pm

  1. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Tonight’s council meeting is bound to be a fiery one. Check out the preview on Guelph Politico:  http://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2017/04/city-council-preview-whats-on-agenda_14.html …

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 16:01:52

  2. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    So we’re about 15 minutes till the start of the meeting. A couple of people have trailed in so far. Me and @SaxonOnTheStorm among them

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:17:08

  3. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There are 15 delegates listed to speak on internet voting. About 300 correspondents as well.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:19:21

  4. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    When I wrote the preview a couple of weeks ago it was 8 to 1 in favour of internet voting among correspondents.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:20:32

  5. The Trib's Doug Hallett is getting ready for his final city council meeting before retirement. We'll sure miss Doug at the media table.

    The Trib’s Doug Hallett is getting ready for his final city council meeting before retirement. We’ll sure miss Doug at the media table.
    Adam A. Donaldson
    ·

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:25:30

  6. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We’ve begun. 1 item for closed session: ATU Collective Bargaining Mandate Request.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:31:10

  7. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council provided direction, a fair, reasonable and affordable contract with employees, but w/ affordability for citizens.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:31:46

  8. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie is talking about tone, apologizes about the commentary and wants to make sure there’s respectful debate.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:32:44

  9. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He wants to make sure we’re getting the right tone of debate and apologizes for painting with a broad brush. Here to talk policy not person.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:33:32

  10. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    On another note, Guthrie pays tribute to man that’s “logged more hours at council than anyone else, Doug Hallett.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:34:32

  11. That's Guelph's city council giving a standing O to a journalist, the @MercuryTribune's Doug Hallett https://t.co/QG0Mpy2dGe

    That’s Guelph’s city council giving a standing O to a journalist, the @MercuryTribune‘s Doug Hallett pic.twitter.com/QG0Mpy2dGe
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:35:39

  12. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gibson will be removing himself from the Habit for Humanity vote, his wife serves as a board member of Habitat.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:39:27

  13. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Minutes from the previous meetings pass unanimously. Next setting the agenda.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:40:24

  14. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Looks like everything but Outstanding P.S. motions, and Animal Control Bylaw amendments been pulled.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:44:23

  15. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    2 items passed unanimously.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:44:38

  16. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cam Guthrie nominated to run for Board of Federation of Canadian Municipalities unanimously.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:46:00

  17. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Habitat for Humanity Development Charge Late Payment Agreement approved unanimously (sans Gibson).

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:46:31

  18. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Piper’s ask for additional training funds is now $700. Passed unanimously by council.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:47:08

  19. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    On Surplus Asset sales, Gibson says he takes issue with mention of St John’s Ambulance. Doesn’t like “picking winners” so to speak.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:48:20

  20. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    St Johns will staff have to go through the county to get approval on buying the ambulance. Guelph can only sell 2/5s of an ambulance.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:51:15

  21. Mayor's splitting the vote on these 2 points. https://t.co/PH9HVTcDij

    Mayor’s splitting the vote on these 2 points. pic.twitter.com/PH9HVTcDij
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:53:50

  22. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Part 1 passes unanimously, part 2 passes 10-3 (Gibson, Billings and Salisbury against)

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:54:18

  23. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings with tax ratio and policy question: would the infrastructure levy be more than 1% with adjustments.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:56:01

  24. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: Yes, technically, it means the levy is 1.03%.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 22:56:23

  25. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Tax Ratios 2017-20 assessment cycle passes 10-3 (Billings, Guthrie and Gibson against).

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:00:23

  26. Billings asks to split the clauses, 1 and 2, and 3 and 4. https://t.co/4ORzv1SaTp

    Billings asks to split the clauses, 1 and 2, and 3 and 4. pic.twitter.com/4ORzv1SaTp
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:01:18

  27. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on clauses 1and 2 passes 10-3 (Guthrie, Gibson, Billings against); 3 and 4 passes 13-0

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:02:58

  28. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, Robert Swayze, City of Guelph Integrity Commissioner.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:03:25

  29. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He’s going to be brief. Only 1 complaint and 6 calls from council giving confidential advise. “This council’s doing something right.”

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:04:10

  30. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Swayze is keeping his eye on Bill 68 – Modernizing Ontario’s Municipal Legislation Act, 2016. Making its way thru Queen’s Park

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:05:25

  31. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Hofland asks of Swayze has worked on any code of conduct with social media.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:08:13

  32. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Swayze says he has. Participated in change to CofC in Mississauga, but work’s been postponed will B68’s been passed.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:09:02

  33. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Was going to make changes, incl. Bill 68, but Swayze says they’re waiting for that process to conclude.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:09:39

  34. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie asks if there’s any “frivolous” complaint where the person has to pay the taxpayer back?

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:12:51

  35. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Swayze knows of 1 municipality where someone filed 16 complaints in 3 years, but @Ont_Ombudsman doesn’t want to discourage complaints

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:13:53

  36. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote to receive report passes 12-0 (Cllr Gordon not in council when vote was called.)

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:14:50

  37. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up: online voting. Now it really begins…

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:15:17

  38. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie looking forward to “wholesome” and “respectful” debate.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:15:56

  39. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    First up, former Wellington-Halton Hills NDP candidate Anne Gajerski-Cauley.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:16:27

  40. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    She says that as mother of adult autistic son she understands accessibility argument, but she’s against internet voting.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:17:17

  41. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gajerski-Cauley says that voters with autism can be easily manipulated through online voting, & accessibility means being seen in world.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:19:44

  42. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gajerski-Cailey says she wants to see all autistic people proudly cast their vote, maybe inspire the abled to get out and vote.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:21:21

  43. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Can the in-person voting experience be made better for ppl w/autism? More ppl on hand at polling place, answers AGC.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:25:06

  44. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllt Allt asks if additional transit $ would help getting more ppl out to the polls? Contract out mobility to pick up disabled voters.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:28:10

  45. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gajerski-Cauley says there should be some PR money to encourage the disabled and ppl with autism to get out and vote.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:28:46

  46. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, Aleksander Essex.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:29:59

  47. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Essex is associate prof. of computer security at Western, he specializes in online voting.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:31:14

  48. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Essex says he disagrees with mayor’s perception that concerns about security risks to online voting are unfounded.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:31:54

  49. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He has a masters student that got his degree three hours ago proving that online voting systems can be hacked.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:32:39

  50. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No solutions exist, just intractable problems, Essex says.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:33:11

  51. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We need secrecy of the ballot, accessibility, and security, Essex says. Also certainty that the results reflect the votes cast.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:34:00

  52. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    How can a bank process your transactions w/o knowing where the money is coming from? That’s why online banking =/= online voting.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:34:59

  53. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Basically the goals of security and secret ballot conflict.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:35:35

  54. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Piper asks for confirmation that there’s no way to trace a violation of software.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:36:47

  55. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There’s a variety of possibilities, could be hacked w/o knowing, could try and hack and stop, etc.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:37:24

  56. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks why Essex is here? In brief: public service, says Essex.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:37:49

  57. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks for professional opinion from Essex. Big mistake is to talk in extremes. It’s not simple.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:39:45

  58. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He would love to vote online, but we want to have our cake and eat it too.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:40:10

  59. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Allt congratulates Essex for training cyber criminals. Essex says it’s really more of a “Defense Against the Dark Arts” thing. #lulz

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:41:57

  60. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Big concern in cyber security is nation states: have the resources to hack, and can keep it secret.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:46:20

  61. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Would a nation state hack Guelph’s elxn? Maybe, but Guelph has had issues with electoral fraud b4 Essex notes.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:46:53

  62. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Profile of Aleksander Essex fyi:  http://eng.uwo.ca/electrical/faculty/essex_a/ …

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:52:46

  63. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Essex says that he and a colleague agree that there’s a lack of standards in Canada about what “secure” voting looks like.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:55:03

  64. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Essex says council is in the unenviable position to be a decision maker, he just gets to advise and warn.

    Mon, Apr 24 2017 23:58:56

  65. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “We’re in uncharted territory. We don’t know what it would be like to have gov’ts elected by malicious hackers,” says Essex.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:00:27

  66. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks how easy to buy the services to buy the next elxn?
    Essex: How much are you offering?

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:01:16

  67. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hackers come in all sizes, shapes and motives, says Essex. Can go top of the line stuxnet, or can do something low keep & easy.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:02:30

  68. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Not something you can buy, but you can find all kinds of ppl looking to do things for bitcoins.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:03:35

  69. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “That’s the laaaaa…” Mayor Guthrie before noticing there’s one more question.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:07:12

  70. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks Essex if he’s “unhackable”. Short answer: no.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:07:40

  71. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie’s got Qs now. Asks why Essex didn’t come to Guelph in 2013? He had been a professor for 1 day.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:09:42

  72. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Essex says that working with the City of Toronto opened him up to the need to advise.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:10:42

  73. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie asks if anyone from Guelph reached out to him to come and talk. People from Guelph did get in touch with him.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:11:19

  74. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He’s also going to be at a conference with Guelph’s clerk this week, and was aware of the debate.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:11:53

  75. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    That’s it for Essex, Brian Holstein is next. And Guthrie notes at this rate we’ll be here till 2 am…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:14:46

  76. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Holstein assures, he’s no luddite despite his age. Taught computers in the classroom when they first appeared in schools.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:15:38

  77. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Holstein points out that Germany’s banned online voting, and Australia’s online census was compromised.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:16:11

  78. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Holstein is hitting hard on the point that there’s no paper trail. The city side doesn’t need to be hacked, could hack personal computer.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:18:57

  79. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guelph is the place where people “use fake names to drum up support,” says Holstein.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:19:29

  80. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Holstein worked as a driver all day last election. Evergreen Centre was “humming” with seniors going out to vote, he said.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:21:33

  81. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up George Kelly.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:21:48

  82. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Kelly is the Chair of Guelph Coalition for Social Justice. He’s also against, and references robocalls.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:22:49

  83. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “I think we’re here, all of us, to protect democracy,” says GK. “Voters R not practitioners of fraud anymore than council supresses votes.”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:26:15

  84. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie asks if Kelly sent in correspondence in 2013 on the issue. He did not.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:26:41

  85. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, Dave Suffling. He works in internet tech security too.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:27:28

  86. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Suffering says he’s helped talk Waterloo Region out of internet voting twice. The tools are “easily accessible” he says.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:28:45

  87. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Internet voting with the MPAC list is driving drunk in a car with no brakes, says Suffling.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:29:28

  88. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Protections used in online banking, shopping are based on user patterns, IPs logged from, etc.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:29:57

  89. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Suffling notes that Microsoft stopped adding updates to Windows XP 3 years ago, and ppl still use it. Can confirm.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:31:27

  90. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks about the reluctance to report hacking.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:33:47

  91. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vendors will try and keep tech closed and proprietary, but more often that’s way of hiding systems that “shouldn’t see light of day”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:34:45

  92. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury wonders why more people are coming out now. Suffling says he didn’t know it was happening, would have come out otherwise.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:36:08

  93. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Suffling says the internet is also being seen as less secure over time.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:36:31

  94. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gordon says there’s divisiveness around council trying to overcome. Looking for advice.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:42:23

  95. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon notes Waterloo “tech savvy neighbour” was a unanimous vote against (in 2013). Suffling wants to tell council it’s safe, can’t.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:43:36

  96. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon notes 3 camps: hard no, worth the risk, will endorse if safe. What is #Guelph to do?

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:44:13

  97. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Suffling: No evidence of a problem doesn’t mean that there isn’t one.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:44:32

  98. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “None of us like waiting at home for the cable guy,” Suffling says on door-to-door.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:45:46

  99. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Suffling says not something to be rushed into. Political parties are self-governing, geography issues, so makes sense for them.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:47:05

  100. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Suffling: We would like internet voting to be the right thing, but we’re not there yet and we might not be for some time.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:48:10

  101. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “The state of client service is awful,” he adds. Especially when we don’t have control of voters list.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:49:06

  102. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie again reminds everyone about timing. Still 10 delegates left.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:49:36

  103. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “There’s nothing to recount once they’ve compromised the system,” Suffling

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:52:41

  104. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “How are you going to guard these machines between elections?” Suffling asks.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 00:53:18

  105. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up is @cam_shelleyA1. He is also against, which makes 6 for 6 right now.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:02:23

  106. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up is @JasonDodgeWard3 with Brad Howcroft.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:08:30

  107. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge is here as representative of Guelph Accessibility Committee. Howcroft is the chair, and they’re the 1st delegate in favour.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:09:50

  108. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Howcroft points out that other municipalities in Ontario are proceeding b/c benefits > issues.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:14:08

  109. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Howcroft makes key point (I think) can’t offer something, and then take it back.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:14:46

  110. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Howcroft says he’s learned a lot tonight. If gov can offer alternative to online that’s as accessible, he’d take it (speaking 4 himself)

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:19:12

  111. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks Dodge if testimony tonight has changed his mind.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:20:32

  112. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge says he came in open-minded but not sure extra security could be ready for 2018. Can’t support remove online vote in meantime.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:21:16

  113. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge says we’re basing a lot of decisions on hypotheticals. Crossing the street is risky too.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:22:32

  114. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge says that nowindays there’s really no such thing as a secret ballot, accessibility takes precedence.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:25:58

  115. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon aks Dodge about social media exchange, voter suppression, and playing politics.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:27:32

  116. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge says he has issue with bringing problems with federal and provincial matters into the debate is unhelpful. This is municipal.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:28:12

  117. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge: “If you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:38:12

  118. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McLellan says he’s going to be brief, and this is a contentious issue.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:40:43

  119. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McLellan says that anti-online based on facts, pro side is based on hopes.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:41:45

  120. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McLellan points out an interesting fact, young people are more suspicious of online voting than older people.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:44:48

  121. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No Qs for McLellan, it’s now time for Susan Watson.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:46:01

  122. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Watson says that vaild concerns about fraud have been mocked and marginalized, sometimes by members of council.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:46:55

  123. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Watson now quoting several lawyers, jurists involved in the robocalls case stating with Justice Hearn.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:47:37

  124. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Robocall fraud did involve the theft of information from secured system, Watson reminds.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:48:12

  125. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Integrity of the process has been tarnished, says Watson, thanks to robocalls.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:50:07

  126. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Quick Q from Allt: Didn’t hear Watson talk about internet voting, what’s the connection with robocalls?

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:51:51

  127. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Watson: a diminishment of trust in the community, and in the integrity of the result that the process couldn’t be tampered with.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:52:20

  128. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    6 delegate left and then the debate…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 01:53:42

  129. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Back to business! Guthrie calling the meeting back to order.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:02:27

  130. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Ron East is now up. Wants tabulators and online voting treated as two separate issues.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:03:38

  131. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    East suggests that there was bias in the staff poll, not enough ppl 18-35 counted among the respondents.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:04:21

  132. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    East cites B.C. research that says that internet voting does not encourage more ppl to vote, makes is easier for those that always vote.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:06:02

  133. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, Lin Grist. Last time she was at council she left her water bottle behind. It’s now in Barcelona.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:09:33

  134. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Grist agains internet voting – for now – not convinced it’s secure.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:10:22

  135. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Voting in an election is not like grocery shopping, Grist says. Emphasis is on accessibility, no convenience.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:11:27

  136. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No questions for Grist. Dennis Galon is next.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:14:11

  137. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    @AdamMacIntyre She doesn’t like the convenience argument, but greater accessibility is persuasive was her meaning.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:15:03

  138. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Galon notes that viruses and hackers are constantly breaking in, which is why your computer has so many vital security updates.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:16:52

  139. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Hackers for hire abound,” says Galon, which is a scary thought, but very lyrically phrased.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:19:14

  140. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Galon the 2nd person in a row to mention mail in ballot possibility.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:19:57

  141. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Maggie Laidlaw says there’s never any questions after 10 pm.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:20:23

  142. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Laidlaw says she’s 2nd and 3rd guess her decision on internet voting in 2013, says that she thinks she was naive about the safety.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:21:25

  143. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “It will come, but not yet,” Laidlaw on internet voting.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:24:16

  144. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, is Hugh Whiteley. Says that he’s astonished that this has not gone through community engagement.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:25:12

  145. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Here, here” someone on the horseshoe said. (Didn’t see who)

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:25:37

  146. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says that he made the decision in 2013 and felt pretty good after 1/2 hour discussion, but things have changed.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:31:48

  147. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Last one up is Laura Root. She has a physical disability and fears the cancellation of online voting will have an ill affect.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:32:30

  148. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    On many days, leaving the house just isn’t possible, says Root, but she had to come out so she could be heard.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:33:40

  149. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Says the concerns about security breaches are a “resounding what-if?”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:34:11

  150. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Urges council to not let fear override facts.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:34:47

  151. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Root adds that she finds it offensive to focus only one area of accessibility: getting people out of the house.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:35:54

  152. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Root asks how accurate the elxn results will be if a portion of a population is silenced.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:37:26

  153. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says council has the ability to take everyone to the polls in limos if they want to (but they won’t).

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:41:45

  154. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    That’s it for the delegates, not it’s time to debate!

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:42:28

  155. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie opens with a motion to go past 11, but council doesn’t seem willing… ?????

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:43:30

  156. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    After conferring with the clerk, Guthrie says if council doesn’t go past 11, another date needs to be set immediately.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:45:24

  157. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says he’s ready to stay till 3, but if council does’t think they can get stay past 12, they should vote no now.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:46:41

  158. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Would hate to be halfway thru and have to shut it down. “I’ll be up all night anyways” Guthrie says.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:47:24

  159. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer adds that council can’t talk to anyone or hear anymore on matter in meantime.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:48:21

  160. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote to go past 11 passes 9-4 (Allt, Bell, Gordon and Hofland against). Guthrie asks for questions and amendments only

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:49:17

  161. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    MacKinnon and Van Hellemond put motion on the floor, w/ amendment for advanced internet polling.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:49:58

  162. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer asks staff about what kind of vulnerabilities there might be.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:51:04

  163. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Third party ran tests and there could be possibility of denial of service (D-DOS) attacks.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:51:45

  164. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien points out that multiple servers allow for multiple redundancies, which would be the case here.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:52:51

  165. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says “we ask a lot of the venders” they go thru 3rd party audit process, hence discovery of long response time for certain pages

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:55:07

  166. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says that electors have to know that guelph.ca is their place for election information. That’s the only site that matters.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:58:13

  167. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Meaning for official election information like where, when to vote.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:58:38

  168. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer asks if O’Brien’s heard anything tonight to cause him concern?

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 02:59:32

  169. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien: Staff stands behind the recommendation. Presentations have highlighted areas to discuss with vender otherwise…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:00:32

  170. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer: Then why are ppl coming to town saying why “the system doesn’t have integrity”?

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:01:09

  171. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien: “We recognize there are potential risks in paper ballot as internet. We do our best to mitigate those risks.”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:02:16

  172. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks CAO Thomson his opinion.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:03:11

  173. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Thomson: I stand by our clerk and the due diligence staff put in this report. Mr. O’Brien is our expert in the field…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:03:48

  174. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings has asked three different ways, Thomson firm that he stands by the clerk.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:05:37

  175. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says it’s very clear to her that there’s not a person on the horseshoe that doesn’t champion accessibility…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:06:57

  176. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    …asks if O’Brien what other improvements there maybe be made to accessibility.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:07:23

  177. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says they’re always looking at ways to make elections as accessible as possible.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:07:51

  178. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    If the city is going to proceed with internet voting, it has to do so by May 1.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:09:16

  179. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks if it would be possible to opt out of the MPAC list.
    (The short answer is no.)

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:12:30

  180. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The city gets the list at the end of August before the elxn so that they can get out the most up-to-date list they can.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:13:46

  181. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The list is also corrected as people come into the poll and vote.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:14:02

  182. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says it shouldn’t be councils that decide how to vote (should come from MMH she says) asks O’Brien if this is a thought among clerks

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:15:29

  183. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says there are those discussions, AMCTO also questions the validity of MPAC list, also a position paper that made Hofland recommend.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:16:41

  184. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt’s got at least 3, maybe 4 questions.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:17:38

  185. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt takes exception to risks to the ballot box the same or greater to internet voting.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:18:33

  186. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says in person ppl have ability to take the oath, ppl w/ disability behind voting screen could be coerced. It’s rare/could happen

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:19:24

  187. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says staff in the voting station are able to see if fraud, coercion is being committed. Limited capacity to scrutinize in the home.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:21:42

  188. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien: Online voting has changed the role of the scrutineer.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:22:40

  189. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt adds that there’s a matter of candidate’s rights and recounts.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:23:33

  190. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says the recount has to happen in the same process the vote was cast. A hand recount of all ballots has to be ordered by judge.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:24:05

  191. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Used to be a hearing process to get someone deceased or moved off the list, MPAC x-references with national list, and city shares info too

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:27:02

  192. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says anyone that owns, rents or is the spouse of an owner or renter can vote in an Ontario Municipal elxn. Period.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:28:20

  193. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper asks if we can invite hackers to test the system.
    Staff: That was the audit function.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:30:05

  194. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper asks if the city can have an open call for hackers. Like a hack-a-thon with actual hacking.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:31:42

  195. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: Can’t answer that now, but maybe we can.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:32:00

  196. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien said we was asked about follow-up, but calling somebody up to confirm they voted might undermine confidence in system

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:32:51

  197. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Thomson says he’d be cautious about imposing conditions like an open hack is that a vender might not bid on it.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:34:08

  198. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper says there’s got to be confidence in the system going into the elxn.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:36:32

  199. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Excellent point.  https://twitter.com/count_the_vote/status/856713426336235520 …

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:36:50

  200. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon appreciating comprehensive staff report, but doesn’t understand the assurance that online voting can provide a secret ballot.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:37:58

  201. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says that it can’t be tracked in the paper process that one of the ballots in the box can be matched to a name on the voters list

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:38:40

  202. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The same is true for internet voting. The system logs that someone with that voter info cast a ballot.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:39:17

  203. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Yup.  https://twitter.com/count_the_vote/status/856714353822670848 …

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:40:28

  204. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says he won’t support this amendment b/c he doesn’t know what future amendments there might be.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:41:12

  205. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    If the motion passes there could be further conditions and amendments. What’s the endgame, I guess.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:41:47

  206. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says he’s heard loud and clear what delegates have heard on both sides.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:42:45

  207. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein asks if improvements can be made after May 1. They can, but would O’Brien be bound by that decision.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:44:29

  208. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council bound on determining method, staff will carry out that method best way.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:44:57

  209. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In other words, council can choose online voting, but its up to staff to secure the vender.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:45:41

  210. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff says this is “their bread and butter”. This is they’re product and if it fails, the company fails.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:46:34

  211. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says the reality is if it fails, the city has to do it anyway.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:47:15

  212. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Bell doesn’t know online voting can achieve secret ballot b/c you can never know who’s “sitting beside” the voter.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:49:59

  213. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says the same concerns exists for the mail-in ballot (someone sitting next to elector coercing their vote).

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:50:37

  214. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    This council meeting expires in 8 minutes w/o an extension.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:52:35

  215. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: hindrance of pro and federal elxns doing internet voting is the size of the electorate. Plus, no standards in place in ON for mail-in

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:55:05

  216. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien understands dilemma of decisions this late, would like an answer tonight though.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:56:15

  217. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “I honestly think we’re 85%, 90% there” says Guthrie. “I hope that council feels the same.”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:57:17

  218. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council votes 10 in favour of continuing. We push on.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:57:39

  219. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt notes that he’s still recovering, and he’s hitting a wall, hence his vote against going past midnight.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 03:58:33

  220. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No more Qs from council, time to vote on the amendment for internet voting in advanced period.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:00:34

  221. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell says he’s trying to take a long view. He was uncomfortable in ’13, seemed like he was going against the current…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:01:42

  222. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    …4 years later, he though city was still going down that track, thanks councillors that with went him.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:02:22

  223. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell concerned b/c in 2014 he was still campaigning and ppl had already voted online. Concerned city going way too fast on this.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:03:32

  224. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The only persuasive argument for Bell is the accessibility one. The convenience argument has “no credibility”

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:04:03

  225. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell says integrity of process very important, and online ballot can never be confirmed secret. It’s fundamental of democracy.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:05:37

  226. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says the issue is around politicization and polarization is one the reasons he’s not going to vote for this.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:08:22

  227. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says Waterloo didn’t want to be a test case for when someone (inevitably) takes internet voting to court.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:09:12

  228. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says the city (and council) seems split 50/50. Perhaps not good to proceed with that even split.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:09:45

  229. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper says this issue comes down to the core principles of our democracy, and they heard from delegations that those principles can’t be met

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:11:41

  230. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says democracy is not about convenience, it’s about engagement. Perhaps that’s where the focus should be.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:13:32

  231. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer says it’s difficult for many of us to be in the position of the disabled. Moved by Howcroft’s words about independence.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:19:55

  232. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer says she can’t take that right away from people like Howcroft. Online voting supporters, I think you’ve found a flipped vote.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:21:15

  233. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says staff has been most impressive after council throwing a curve ball.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:23:24

  234. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says the convenience argument is still valid, a lot of busy parents, or people that can’t afford sitters.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:24:22

  235. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Point of fact: voter turnout was 43 per cent in 2014.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:27:07

  236. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon says he’s finding it very confusing that b/c there’s flaws in paper ballots we should accept another system with flaws.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:28:12

  237. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Adds that the public is keen at learning more, but council has to a proverbial gun to their heads.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:28:57

  238. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon says that there were a lot of people that voted b/c of vital issues, not b/c it was “cool” to vote online.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:29:44

  239. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon says some on council are dismissing those that did the research to urge caution.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:30:55

  240. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Noted the ones in favour were short, and often had insults for those against.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:31:25

  241. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon also notes he’s never been accused of being cautious.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:31:48

  242. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland: security > convenience.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:33:44

  243. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings: It would be a disservice and injustice to take this away after it being offered in 2014.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:35:25

  244. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “I’m feeling frustrated because accessibility is so important and I can’t see taking it away,” Billings.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:36:51

  245. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Amendment fails 6-7 (Billings, Downer, Gibson, Guthrie, MacKinnon, Van Hellemond voted in favour)

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:38:30

  246. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The main motion for tabulator use passes 12-1 (Downer against).

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:39:03

  247. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell wonders about accomplishing greater accessibility w/o online voting…

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:40:40

  248. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    …Would like council to write to the province about creating secure process for people w/ disability to vote.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:41:14

  249. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer can’t support that b/c it goes against human rights code. Cant design separate system for people w/ disabilities, its discriminatory

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:43:10

  250. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell motion passes 7-5 (Van Hellemond not longer in the chamber)

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:45:29

  251. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    O’Brien says there’s limited ways for council to weigh in. They’ve voted against internet voting, now he’ll have to decide how to deliver.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:47:11

  252. ward6mark

    Mark MacKinnon@ward6mark
    Sorry, #Guelph. By a 6-7 vote, your council has rejected maintaining accessible online voting for the 2018 municipal election. 😞

    ·

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:48:26

  253. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Notices of motion up next, just a vote on the validity of the motion to be discussed in committee next week.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:49:08

  254. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein’s motion is to suspend notices of motion until a policy’s developed.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:50:04

  255. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote to send motion to committee fails. Missed the count, but pretty decisive.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:51:31

  256. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bylaws passed 12-0

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:51:59

  257. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Meeting adjourned. That’s a wrap! Thanks for following.

    Tue, Apr 25 2017 04:52:35

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