LIVE BLOG: City Council Meeting for February 22, 2016

Published on by Adam A. Donaldson

City council will be getting together again to discuss matters of importance to the City of Guelph. On the agenda this Monday are reports from the integrity commissioner and the audit committee, as well as action on infrastructure and a parking agreement with a downtown business. You can click here for the amended agenda from City Hall, and you can click here to read Politico’s preview of tonight’s meeting. For the complete blow-by-blow of tonight’s council meeting, you can follow me on Twitter, or follow along below via Storify.

by
Adam A. Donaldson
Sat, Sep 23 2017 17:57:12

Guelph City Council Meeting – February 22, 2016

Live blog of the City Council Meeting on Monday February 22, 2016

  1. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    From Guelph Politico: City Council Preview – What’s on the Agenda for February 22’s Meeting?  http://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2016/02/city-council-preview-whats-on-agenda_17.html …

    Mon, Feb 22 2016 16:39:41

  2. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Of course, I’ll be live blogging/tweeting from council tonight at 7 pm. #Guelph #GuelphNews

    Mon, Feb 22 2016 16:40:36

  3. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Follow along tonight with the live blog from the #Guelph City Council meeting  http://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2016/02/live-blog-city-council-meeting-for_22.html …

    Mon, Feb 22 2016 16:59:24

  4. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    8 minutes till council begins. Remember to follow along here, or here  http://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2016/02/live-blog-city-council-meeting-for_22.html …

    Mon, Feb 22 2016 23:53:32

  5. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Looks like it might be a full house for the first time this year.

    Mon, Feb 22 2016 23:59:40

  6. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We’re under way. Mayor Guthrie going over items from closed session

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:01:17

  7. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    OPA 48,54 staff given direction; 171 Kortright Council no direction in this matter; staff given direction on Storm negotiations

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:02:11

  8. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Correction: Andy Van Hellemond n’est pas ici today.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:04:29

  9. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Bell has question about the minutes on Jan 25. How was the open meeting closed w/o quorum?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:05:32

  10. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clerk: Minutes showed there were enough members to close the open session. (Cllr Gordon came back).

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:06:09

  11. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Minutes approved 12-0

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:06:30

  12. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Robert Swayze, the integrity commissioner, now reporting. He’s been the “Maytag repair man” of ICs, he says.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:07:22

  13. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings has a question about retainer.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:08:07

  14. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings also asks if there have been complaints filed for 2016.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:08:23

  15. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Swayze says that he has a complaint now that he is considering. Uh,oh.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:08:40

  16. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now the Internal Audit work plan and the Audit Committee Work plan.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:10:43

  17. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Delegations her for the Infrastructure Environment and Funding Options Report.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:13:40

  18. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Bell is speaking to report from Infrastructure, Development and Enterprise Ctte. That’s the Western hotel parking one

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:14:43

  19. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Parking agreement with Western hotel passes 12-0.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:15:01

  20. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings asking about the Audit work plan. Why vote on 2016-18, rather than vote on 2016 and receive 17,18?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:17:23

  21. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Wettstein asked the auditor about risk. The 2016 list is recommended, asked to give risk analysis for future audits. When best 2do them

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:18:24

  22. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Flexibility in the timing, in other words. It’s a rolling schedule. 2017,18 not finalized.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:18:55

  23. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings concerned that the plan for years beyond 17/18 will be seen as etched in stone.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:19:56

  24. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings proposes amendment to receive 2017, 18 plan instead of approved. Vote on amendment passes 12-0

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:20:28

  25. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asking about 2 processes “at odds.” Police chief expenses going to police board, but CAO expenses going to subordinate

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:22:02

  26. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Audit says treasurer has enough authority to go to CAO and demand explanation for expenses.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:22:32

  27. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says this is standard, not just the auditor’s opinion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:23:06

  28. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asking about value for money audit of fleet. Asking why there aren’t more audits like that.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:23:58

  29. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: Value for money not the driving decided. Auditor looks more at risk.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:24:20

  30. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Auditor is assuring that there’s political neutrality. Value for money audits get into service rationalization and more political realms.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:25:00

  31. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Audit says she knows council has a priority for value for money. She takes into consideration her resources tho.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:26:15

  32. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings ask if there’s hope after the audit of fleet management to find savings.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:27:33

  33. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says every audit hopes to find savings for the city (after risk management dangers accounted for).

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:28:13

  34. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Will garbage trucks be looked at since they weren’t accounted for in waste audit? Yes.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:28:49

  35. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Fraud, conflict of interest, due diligence, all reasons why further action may be taken on the audit.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:31:59

  36. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Confusion in 2014/15 came from internal energy audit. Some ppl interpreted as district energy, which had unique elements to it.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:33:40

  37. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Will get to that when restructuring of GMHI comes to council in a few months.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:34:03

  38. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Community energy initiative broader than council, from the community. Coming back to council in May.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:34:59

  39. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    It’s not like we’re dealing with transit, that’s ours. community energy initiative is broader, says Wettstein.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:36:07

  40. scottjtracey

    Scott Tracey@scottjtracey
    Planned energy audit won’t include Community Energy Initiative, council hears, because CEI is wider than city hall.

    ·

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:38:21

  41. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie: a lot of concern about CEI project, but it seemed to get push back from 2014.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:38:24

  42. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie: glad that Wettstein brought up CEI. broad based support in community. Concerned about projects initiated under CEI.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:39:34

  43. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie wants council to review these projects sooner than later b/c no report’s come in 2014 or 15

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:40:02

  44. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Point of order:
    Corporate Energy Plan: Energy uses in city facilities.
    CEI: broader future local energy plans.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:42:45

  45. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Independent, risk related, non-political. Guidelines of how audit conducted says Wettstein.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:43:35

  46. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Audit ctte has no special role other than to receive report & ask questions of auditor. Can enhance or explore, but auditor knows risk areas

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:44:30

  47. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Changing work plan not in audit committee mandate.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:44:55

  48. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “She’s independent of all us.” Wettstein says of internal auditor.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:46:21

  49. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asking about process for getting an external auditor.
    Wettstein says it’s not up to cmtte or council to bring that forward.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:47:58

  50. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO Pappert offers clarification. Council can ask for audits, charter for auditor was reviewed last summer.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:49:54

  51. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein standing up for the auditor. It’s a request to consider, and she decides if it fits in her mandate. line of confusion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:50:31

  52. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gibson’s going to get candid

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:51:41

  53. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson groing concerned about elements of CEI. Spent a lot of time on this file, and the decision & govern aspects causing concern

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:52:19

  54. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    June 28, 2010 when council approved strategic business study flashback. Gibson asks auditor if she can investigate CEI projects in 2016.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:53:44

  55. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: That is not one that fits her (the auditor’s) current mandate. Will have to be referred back to CAO

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:54:27

  56. scottjtracey

    Scott Tracey@scottjtracey
    Gibson asks if auditor would consider CEI audit this year, if funds were made available. Wettstein suggests doesn’t fit auditor’s mandate.

    ·

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:54:34

  57. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson would like to see 3rd party audit. Auditor would scope and execute.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:55:34

  58. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    This is a request that has to go thru the CAO, and not auditor directly.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:55:56

  59. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO: has the authority at any time. Hours in the auditor work plan to allow for 3rd party. Council can offer scope.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:57:04

  60. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Depending on nature of investigation, the scope question might be something dealt with in closed session

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:57:34

  61. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Either discussed through committee or through council.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 00:58:57

  62. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson moves for 3rd party external audit of CEI. Wettstein says council is blending the directives.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:00:20

  63. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson moves for 3rd party external audit of CEI. Wettstein says council is blending the directives.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:00:20

  64. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Its a new motion. The audit committee report is still the motion on the floor. Still speakers on original motion: Bell, Salisbury & Allt

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:01:18

  65. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell: there’s enormous support across Canada for action on climate change. CEI is supposed to participate in that effort

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:02:02

  66. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell referencing Gibson motion. Will come back to that.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:02:29

  67. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Salisbury: 2017 audit of energy is internal to the city. Corporate Energy Program not CEI.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:04:37

  68. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    That’s a pretty mundane thing. Wettstein on the Internal Audit Work Plan.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:07:31

  69. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    One is energy savings, one is energy generating. Allt on the difference between CEP and CEI.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:08:22

  70. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote for report as amended passes 12-0

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:08:53

  71. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council direct 3rd party investigative audit for capital projects under CEI & special public meeting be held to determine frame of reference

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:09:41

  72. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    That’s Gibson’s new motion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:10:13

  73. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell notes Federal support for energy initiatives to battle climate change.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:11:05

  74. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Need to direct efforts in areas we know we’ve had successes.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:11:24

  75. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Details of motion debatable, but need to look at where we’re good, bad, and where we’ll go in future – Bell

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:12:24

  76. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson doesn’t believe checkins on CEI have been completed yet. Need to make sure we fulfill enviro goals and ambitions.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:12:58

  77. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson: If it merits, have public discussion and delegations.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:14:28

  78. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie and Pappert believe that “public” handcuffs the motions. Maybe matters that can only be discussed in camera.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:15:14

  79. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    …”council be involved for determining scope and terms of reference” Guthrie’s proposed changed.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:16:26

  80. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO asking for direction. How will we do progress report on CEI in May? Many partners/projects in CEI

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:17:34

  81. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says he trusts that the report from Pappert and team will include direction and timing.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:19:05

  82. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO trying to draft reference for report, if its under GMHI that’s easier to put together.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:20:25

  83. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson: Doesn’t need progress report to be concerned.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:20:46

  84. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says we’re moving in scoping, which we really don’t need right now.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:21:23

  85. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: Everything Gibson said has to be done after May. Ideally, everything possible needs to be public.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:21:55

  86. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No question about public involvement or participation, says Wettstein. Haven’t got anything to scope yet.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:22:27

  87. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says he’d have no trouble supporting this in May. Maybe a bit early to do this now.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:23:03

  88. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury salutes intent. Concerned about narrow scope and prematurity of motion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:23:31

  89. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO: review of analysis and metrics needs to be part of scoping and approach discussion coming to council

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:25:43

  90. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    A broad picture coming to council in May. Report will arrive, then analysis to see what’s working or not.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:26:21

  91. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury: trying to get a lay of the land, and would their be a preliminary scoping? High level risk analysis?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:27:18

  92. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO: Motion wasn’t to go to that extreme. There maybe specific projects that require further details.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:27:51

  93. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO: Still work to do in drafting terms of reference. Getting approval on how council wants the city to review work the intent of May’s rprt

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:29:19

  94. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Exec team report back to gov cmte the preferred method of delivering report, original motion about May’s report as read by Guthrie.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:31:27

  95. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie: Gibson motion audits projects not how they’re audited.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:32:14

  96. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury getting emails on this. The Gibson motion is too narrow and too premature.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:33:25

  97. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt not supporting either, saying that we can’t start an audit before the review

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:34:07

  98. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt: this is all complex and needs to be rolled out slowly. Gibson motion is a “quantum leap.”

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:34:38

  99. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Hofland wishes the delegates had gotten to speak first. So do they (probably).

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:35:13

  100. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland also believes this move is premature

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:35:42

  101. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon asking how this motion will impact the timeline for staff report in May.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:36:43

  102. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO: we would be working on parallel process. Would be coming back with scope of 3rd party audit and timeline

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:37:27

  103. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    3 words: extra invisible hands  https://twitter.com/DrJulieGill/status/701943538913771520 …

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:38:02

  104. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon: It’s adding to the hairiness. His interpretation.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:38:26

  105. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Has faith that staff is doing the work and it will be comprehensive.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:38:43

  106. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer also talks about timing but doesn’t want to see motion voted down. Defer to May?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:39:41

  107. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie feels like they’ve veered off. May motion was about preferred method of progress report.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:41:25

  108. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Narrowness and scoping is a discussion that will come back when staff delivers report from this motion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:42:07

  109. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer: We’re putting the cart before the horse, hence want to defer.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:42:45

  110. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper seconds Downer motion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:43:01

  111. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer motion fails 4 to 8.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:43:59

  112. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McKinnon says motion is incomplete. No timeline.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:45:05

  113. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    CAO: report could come back in April for council input.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:45:36

  114. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper says a number of projects being audited under CEI have partners. There’s also been no talk of cost yet.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:46:36

  115. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie seems a bit frustrated by the merry-go-round debate. Will call vote after Billings comments.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:47:53

  116. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings point out that liability of the projects is $17 million. Could severely impact the city.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:49:54

  117. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Calling it “narrow” or “premature” is short-sighted, Billings.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:50:22

  118. Ward1Guelph

    Dan Gibson@Ward1Guelph
    @scottjtracey @adamadonaldson my motion calling for 3rd party investigative audit into CEI projects is a motion to direct, scope to follow.

    ·

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:50:25

  119. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on Gibson motion fails 5-7.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:51:18

  120. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie calling for a recess. Council back at 9 pm.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 01:51:49

  121. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Still 4 delegates for Infrastructure Environment and Funding Options incl. @chamberadvocacy

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:00:20

  122. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie calls meeting back to order.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:00:39

  123. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Report about “potential funding for upcoming renovations/expansions and to report back by the end of 2016 Q3” for General hospital.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:02:24

  124. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland differs Qs about specific renos at hospital to Billings who’s on Hospital board.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:03:25

  125. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    First up is @JasonDodgeWard3 to talk to report.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:03:41

  126. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge says we’ll open another can of worms now…

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:04:17

  127. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    When he lost job in ’14, he looked for ways to make ends meet. City has same responsibility.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:05:02

  128. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge says council refuses to look inwards. That needs to end, needs to find internal savings first b4 levy.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:05:42

  129. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “What about the fruit hanging in the middle or at the top of the tree?”

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:06:08

  130. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge: might benefit to look at selling, partnership for Sleeman, or River Run

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:06:32

  131. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dodge: every time council refuses to look within it tells city they don’t respect there tax money.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:07:28

  132. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Lack of trust as a result, says Dodge.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:07:41

  133. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Some of you were strongly supported by local unions…” he says. Job is to make tough decisions, Dodge says.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:08:21

  134. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No questions for Dodge.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:09:19

  135. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Kithio Mwanzia AKA: @chamberadvocacy now speaking against the infrastructure levy.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:10:01

  136. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Businesses that have to make tough decisions about where to expand over the next couple of years. Profit and non-profit.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:10:38

  137. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There will be negative implications under the levy, says Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:11:09

  138. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    #Guelph needs to be evaluated competitively, says Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:11:26

  139. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia also making the case for revisiting service rationalization. Effect is delay in determining how to close infrastructure gap.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:12:22

  140. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia is pointedly using the word “tax” instead of “levy.”

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:12:48

  141. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Chamber recommending hiatus on levy talk till asset management plan done.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:13:42

  142. scottjtracey

    Scott Tracey@scottjtracey
    Staff report notes other municipalities which have imposed such levies, but Mwanzia says they have done service reviews, asset mgmnt plans

    ·

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:14:00

  143. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McKinnon asking about how Chamber members feel about keeping the gap growing even after review is done.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:16:42

  144. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Proposed levy is 2% a year for 10 years, but asset management plan could affect that number. Maybe 1.5% or 1% for example.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:17:58

  145. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Anytime we’ve seen the implementation of this type of tax, there’s a number of preceding documents and actions, Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:20:12

  146. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    If council refuses to look, does that preclude getting more money? McKinnon to Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:21:13

  147. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Probably not going to find $25 million in operational and $100 million in backlog says MacKinnon. Piper shakes head no.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:22:20

  148. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia: council decision making is what it is. Wants council to think thru decision as a job. Decisions could be delayed.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:23:36

  149. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Businesses could decide not to hire in lieu of paying the levy.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:24:03

  150. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Forgot to add “…because he’s scared of the Fox moderator.”  https://twitter.com/Variety/status/701955710699982848 …

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:25:14

  151. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The business community will basically reconsider expenditures, new employees and expansion, etc.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:25:51

  152. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson agrees, shouldn’t jump straight to a “tax.” Show’s community that there’s due diligence on council

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:26:58

  153. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson wants to make sure there’s still a business culture here.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:28:24

  154. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt not sure where he stands on levy. Believes he has responsibility to make sure we build a good quality city.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:30:26

  155. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Asks Mwanzia if he can name a city where a levy has a negative impact on business.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:30:48

  156. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia mentions again that number of FTE opps in a given year may not be as many if there’s a levy.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:32:03

  157. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia add that members are not against city building, this is about process.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:32:37

  158. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Someone will not have a job that year because of a decision made around this council table.” Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:33:57

  159. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt wondering about the impact on business if infrastructure not developed. Sympathetic to taxpayers.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:34:29

  160. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “I’m the cheapest person in this world.” I think that’s @PhilAlltWard3‘s re-election slogan for 2018.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:34:57

  161. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asking if Chamber has ideas about assets that can be managed off the books. Mwanzia says it requires thoughtful engagement.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:35:42

  162. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein mentions that there are competing elements i.e.: service rationalization lost to keep 2016 tax rate low

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:38:40

  163. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: is your (Mwanzia) perception that we’re not looking at those things now.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:39:49

  164. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Short answer: not a perception, but actions of council moved business to believe they don’t exist, Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:42:33

  165. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein asking if Mwanzia would have been more comfortable if service rationalization been enacted in xchange for higher taxes?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:44:05

  166. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia: don’t think its reasonable to say that we took out prudent biz management for one year of lower taxes.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:45:08

  167. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Decision making has to happen today, says Mwanzia. Public policy doesn’t line-up with the reality of what council decided on.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:46:16

  168. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury thanks Mwanzia for common sense, but doesn’t see magnitude of savings from review.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:48:17

  169. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury: would it not make sense to make a move to predictability instead of large lump sum increases due to infrastructure failure?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:49:25

  170. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Asset management in other communities didn’t do anything about backlog, but it offered hints about savings, Mwanzia.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:50:33

  171. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Budget at level of inflation “not an unheard of scenario,” says Mwanzia. Doesn’t want to prejudice the process.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:51:19

  172. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Lack of tweets donates that we’re kind of circling around the same question being asked and answered.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:59:16

  173. scottjtracey

    Scott Tracey@scottjtracey
    . @CathyDowner questions @chamberadvocacy math – suggesting 2% levy would not equal a full-time position as he claimed #Guelph

    ·

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 02:59:40

  174. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Chris Keleher, who ran in Ward 2 in 2014, now speaking.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:00:30

  175. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He worked for the city of 9 years. Respectfully disagrees with the idea that there’s no low hanging fruit.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:01:16

  176. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Keleher doesn’t want to see fruit rot. His ideas can be achieved quickly $250-$500K savings a change in city bylaw. An unorthodox proposal.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:02:29

  177. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Finally Pat Fung, who also spoke during budget deliberations.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:03:06

  178. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Fung listing off wide variety of businesses that have cut jobs.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:04:38

  179. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Have to try and provide service at lowest cost possible, if it means cutting then that’s what we have to do, Fung

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:05:23

  180. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote to receive infrastructure options. MacKinnon asking where this goes from here.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:06:52

  181. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland: there’s no action, but she has same question.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:07:24

  182. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings said there’s still work that has to be done by staff. Going from desktop to comprehensive review.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:08:27

  183. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mark Amarosi says it would be prudent for Scott Stewart to talk about next stages for council and community clarity.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:10:07

  184. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    A lot of work on assets that hasn’t been quantified yet, Amarosi

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:10:52

  185. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: there’s a whole bunch of assets that we have a good handle on. We don;t have to have a fire sale.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:15:06

  186. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: No magical cure to all our infrastructure needs.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:15:31

  187. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says he’s worked in municipalities with a development freeze. “that’s a chill.” have to keep up with infrastructure.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:16:22

  188. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    MacKinnon: it looks like gap shrinking is going well, but the infrastructure report card tells a different story.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:17:19

  189. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: what we’re getting better at is the numbers that we’re giving you. Slide on screen doesn’t have vertical infrastructure.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:18:19

  190. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vertical infrastructure is stuff like rec centres for example.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:18:56

  191. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie wants to focus on the motions in front of council: hospital and operation review.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:19:43

  192. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Thank you!  https://twitter.com/scottjtracey/status/701969622715727872 …

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:20:04

  193. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff will share answer to MacKinnon’s Q offline so that the motion can move along.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:22:32

  194. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury Q asks how staff report on internal operations savings is different from service rationalization.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:24:35

  195. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie motions are not being implemented today. This is direction being given to staff.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:24:58

  196. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson glad it will be coming for more dialogue. Can’t be something that “pops up” at budget time.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:25:51

  197. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson: speaks to the business communities desire for transparency in this process.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:26:11

  198. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper: How does the 2nd motion differ from what we do everyday?

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:27:02

  199. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper: That I think is a rhetorical question, she says.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:27:42

  200. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: it will be a summery to council along the lines that Piper mentioned, as well as offering some new directions to staff.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:28:14

  201. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says this is a duplication of the budgeting process, maybe ineffectual to open it in the middle of the year.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:32:37

  202. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Amarosi: misinterpretation of the process. It’s presenting options to find savings, not recreating lists of past savings taken or not

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:33:21

  203. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    It will be a short report to find a range of options everyday at city hall, says Amarosi.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:34:29

  204. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Consolidating many discussions over the years.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:34:41

  205. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: it’s a make work project that doesn’t identify the main issues. Obviously, he’s voting against.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:35:35

  206. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer asking if the city’s gone to the province yet.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:36:53

  207. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says that the hospital is working with the ministry to go to stage one of the process. Timeline is 5 years.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:37:31

  208. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer says she doesn’t want staff diving efforts. Asks motions to be separated. Guthrie will make it so.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:38:18

  209. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says this is downloading, asking Guelph rate payers to over provincial responsibility.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:38:54

  210. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt adds that the second amendment is redundant to the process. Asking staff to do something they do everyday.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:40:03

  211. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says that she won’t be supporting either motion.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:41:26

  212. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billigs points out that province covers 90% of capital costs for hospital; municipality covers 10%

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:43:40

  213. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    @AdamMacIntyre I think the argument is that staff already do that. They prepare a list of efficiencies every budget.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:44:22

  214. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury notes that it seems rushed considering it could take upward of 7 years to get the project going.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:46:41

  215. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon is worried if this is a deflection into the work at hand. Roads and pipes to as sexy, but crucial.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:47:24

  216. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says point #1 is about more info; wants more info.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:48:52

  217. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie thinks some on council are pre-judging when its about getting more info. On the 2nd motion, doesn’t appreciate “frivolous.”

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:49:43

  218. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Motion fails on #1 6-6. That’s staff working with hospital on funding.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:50:16

  219. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    #2 passes 7-5. That’s Q2 report for operational savings.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:50:49

  220. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland looking for timing on operational savings report. Wants public input, and wants it to not conflict with budget

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:52:38

  221. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Amorous says Q3 is more reasonable than Q2

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:53:01

  222. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Q3 is “perfectly reasonable.” Will also know some of the results around asset management work too.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:54:33

  223. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Motion to move passed 11 pm passes. Awesome? jk

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:55:58

  224. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Another ball in the air: infrastructure money from the Feds, Hofland.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 03:59:31

  225. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    New motion from Hofland: report come back in Q3 to committee with status update.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:01:03

  226. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson wants to make sure that the community is full aware where council’s head space is at.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:01:55

  227. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury wants to make sure council isn’t “drinking the kool-aid” that service rationalization is a “magic bullet” to cover infrastructure

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:02:40

  228. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: it appears unlikely that there’s 2% tax increase for infrastructure in 2017.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:03:52

  229. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    MacKinnon says that what we’re talking about is what we need. Not going to have all the info to make a good decision.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:04:35

  230. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    MacKinnon: can’t ignore infrastructure one more year.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:04:52

  231. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Should be automatic policy that if you need $100M for a bridge in 100 years u should put away $1M per year – MacKinnon

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:06:10

  232. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “and potential recommendations” has been added. Vote passes 12-0

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:07:58

  233. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote passes 12-0 for directive to come back Q3

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:08:55

  234. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Finally, Billings wants to talk about CAO matter.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:09:14

  235. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Pappert, facilitator may be required for April session, not March

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:10:01

  236. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Governance committee meets as CAo subcommittee for that process.

    Tue, Feb 23 2016 04:11:13

 

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