LIVE BLOG: City Council Meeting for November 13, 2017

Published on by Adam A. Donaldson

Two straightforward items make up the demands on council for this month’s planning meeting. You can click here for the agenda from City Hall, and you can click here for the Politico preview. For the complete blow-by-blow of tonight’s council meeting, you can follow me on Twitter, or follow along below via Storify.

 

by
Adam A. Donaldson
Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:23:11

Guelph City Council Meeting – November 13, 2017

Live blog from the meeting starting at 6:30 pm

  1. It's the planning meeting of #GuelphCouncil tonight, and there's only a couple of items on the agenda: https://t.co/Suq03OdZvD https://t.co/xRzPtWHTGF

    It’s the planning meeting of #GuelphCouncil tonight, and there’s only a couple of items on the agenda:  https://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2017/11/city-council-preview-whats-on-agenda_3.html … pic.twitter.com/xRzPtWHTGF

     

     

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Nov 13 2017 21:57:36

  2. Programming note: the live-blog *may* start late due to personal matters. pic.twitter.com/faB4RDgfMH

     

     

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Nov 13 2017 21:59:09

  3. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Long story short, today was my sister’s birthday, and thus we went out for a family dinner. Hence the lack of live blog. I’m at home now, and was hoping that Rogers might have the meeting available for review right after, but no, this is Rogers we’re talking about…

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 01:08:02

  4. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    …I promise to do a live-ish blog as soon as the video of the meeting is posted.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 01:09:05

  5. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    And now a special time-shifted blog of last night’s city council meeting…

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:08:30

  6. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No Disclosure of Pecuniary Interest and General Nature Thereof.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:09:48

  7. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Closed meeting summery: The memorandum of agreement between the City and ATU local 1189 (AKA: Guelph Transit employees). Both sides reached an agreement last week.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:12:43

  8. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt/Hofland bring forward a motion to approve the memorandum, it passes 13-0.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:13:18

  9. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Obviously, no details about the agreement will be released until it’s passed by the ATU members.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:14:13

  10. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now on to Urban Design Manual: Urban Design Vision and
    Design Action Plan. No one on council wants to pull this item for broader discussion.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:15:18

  11. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer moves to approve the manual, notes that she’s pleased with the work although she has a few minor questions she’ll take off line.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:16:20

  12. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Urban Design Manual: Urban Design Vision and Design Action Plan passes 13-0.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:16:44

  13. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Last item up: 388 Arkell Road – Proposed Official Plan Amendment and Zoning By-law Amendment Files: OP1705 and ZC1708.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:17:32

  14. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Lindsay Sulatycki, Senior Development Planner, is presenting. This is the statutory public meeting for the project, which, if approved, will see a new high school built at the corner of Arkell and Victoria.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:18:42

  15. https://t.co/cg5cgjSDLq

    pic.twitter.com/cg5cgjSDLq

     

     

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:20:46

  16. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Schools are not specifically permitted on land with this current designation, but the Upper Grand District School Board has submitted a site-specific plan on this.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:21:54

  17. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The land in question was annexed from Puslinch in 1993 and was zoned agricultural. Under law, the annexing municipality has to abide by the original designation. Hence the request for rezoning.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:23:35

  18. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now questions from council starting with Cllr Allt. Asks about any potential repercussions from re designating annexed land

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:26:26

  19. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sulatycki says that’s something staff can look at and include in a future report.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:26:58

  20. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings about the definition of community services and facilities if schools are excluded from that definition?

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:28:06

  21. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sulatycki says community services and facilities are meant to be complimentary to the primary use, but the school here is the primary use of this land.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:29:27

  22. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Billings asks how far out the transportation study goes. Mentions the existing concerns about traffic at Arkell and Gordon. Sulatycki says she doesn’t know, but can provide info in next report.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:36:28

  23. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Piper asks about how the land came to be acquired. It was not a friendly expropriation? Sulatycki says she’s not sure how the land was expropriated, just that it was.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:40:14

  24. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper: Was it Class A farmland?
    Sulatycki: Don’t know exact designation, but it was not prime farmland.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:41:09

  25. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    First delegation is Pierre Chauvin, MHBC Planning, who’s working with UGDSB on developing the school plan.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:49:40

  26. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    At the request of staff, the plan has looked at how development might continue around the school if construction is approved. The site is well established including existing trails and transit routes.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 21:55:27

  27. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In the plan, there are two accesses to the site on Arkell, and one on Victoria. The second entry on Arkell is meant for accessibility and as a fire route.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:01:50

  28. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    This is the first high school to be constructed in Guelph in 50 years. The 4 high schools in the city are all over capacity, and a lot of students currently being bused elsewhere will be able to walk to school once completed.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:02:58

  29. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The school will create employment too. 110 teachers and staff at the school.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:03:27

  30. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Chauvin says this is the “beginning of the road”. There’s still a lot of ground to cover before the school is finally open. Both City and School Board requirements.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:05:04

  31. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Allt kicks off questions by asking about the type of high school this will be: collegiate, technical etc? Chauvan refers the question to the rep from UGDSB

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:13:26

  32. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt also has a question about the impact on technical programs at College Heights, whether provincial funding is affected by the type of school, and whether the school will be populated gradually, starting with 9ers, or all at once.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:15:20

  33. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Chauvin refers all those questions to Jennifer Passy of the Upper Grand District School Board, who will be speaking soon.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:16:13

  34. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Salisbury asks about any consideration for mixed use given the proposed zoning in order to provide amenities for the community?

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:17:36

  35. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Chauvin says mixed use doesn’t not always have to be on one property. There already is commercial development on the SW corner and residential nearby.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:19:35

  36. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Bell asks about trails, they lead to the school, but not pass through. Can they connect? Chauvin says they can, there’s opportunity.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:23:21

  37. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks again about the traffic impact study? Chauvin says it covers to Arkell/Gordon and as far south as Clair Rd.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:24:09

  38. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper asks about low impact, sustainable development for the school, has it been part of the discussion?
    Chauvin: It’s been part of the discussion, but too early in the process for details.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:25:26

  39. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Passy of UGDSB is now delegating. Since 2005: 5 new elementary schools, and 3 rebuilds have taken place, yet nothing for high schools. New school hopes to relieve pressure.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:28:22

  40. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In response to Allt’s questions, Passy said that the type of school has not yet been decided, there’ll be no impact on other school programs, and move-in is something else that’s TBD.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:31:30

  41. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury revisits mixed-use question with Passy. UGDSB has not considered building in mixed-use

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:32:46

  42. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Outside of vertical school development in Toronto, Passy says she hasn’t heard of an integration of mixed use in school construction.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:33:35

  43. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie asks if there’s ever been a partnership with the city on something like this? A way to answer city needs at the same time as school board needs. Like.. a cricket pitch (??)

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:35:22

  44. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Passy says they’ve had lengthy conversations with city staff, including an info night where they asked staff specifically about Arkell, and there seems to be nothing in this instance, but they’re open.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:37:07

  45. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie also asks is there’s a possibility of new Transit stops where buses can pull off the road. Passy says they can discuss that with engineering.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:38:37

  46. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now the matter comes back to council for discussion… But wait! Someone wants to comment, but is apparently ambivalent about coming to the podium.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:40:05

  47. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The delegate is Shelly Jennings, she owns a townhouse across the road from one of the entrances to the school. Her first concern is the traffic and the noise.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:41:08

  48. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Jennings also wondering where the front of the school is, if the park will be publicly accessible, and if the majority of students will be bused? Mayor Guthrie says the previous delegates may be able to answer her questions after the end of the meet.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:44:46

  49. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings puts the motion to receive on the floor.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:45:23

  50. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings goes back again to the transportation study. The boundary review not done, but the transpo study is? How do you have accurate numbers?

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:46:45

  51. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says he’s very concerned about the loss of commercial and medium density zoned land. Knows this came in before OPA 48 wants to hear from staff how much of an impact/legal aspect to this development.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:49:14

  52. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sulatycki: That’s something staff will have to review, but it was submitted before the OPA update went into full effect.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 22:50:14

  53. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says he appreciates the clarification, but the proposal before council is “absolutely appropriate for 1967”. We have to start planning developments differently and take “fresh approach to planning our urban environment as an urban environment.”

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:00:27

  54. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury also notes that there’s a tremendous commercial impact to businesses in the area. Ever see Two Plus Pizza on Suffolk around noon hour?

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:02:54

  55. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says he’s “hearing comments” and asks Salisbury to respect the delegates. Wants to make sure we’re not attacking a planner doing his job.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:04:15

  56. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie adds that a lot of what Salisbury is talking about needs to be directed at provincial partners.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:04:53

  57. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper says she’ll be looking at lighting conditions when the plan comes back. She’s also uncomfortable with showing a future development overlay, especially when it shows a landowner’s house gone.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:06:11

  58. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer also concerned about lighting, might be better to switch the placement of the parking lot and the sports field, since the field has higher, brighter lights.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:07:21

  59. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell follows up on Salisbury’s line of question, can commercial development on the SW corner make for the loss on the school side?
    Sulatycki: Staff can provide that info, yes.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:08:45

  60. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell says it’s important to the community to create walkability.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:09:29

  61. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt hopes that staff will considering limited parking in the hopes that this will be an area school with lots of students heading in on foot.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:10:46

  62. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Van Hellemond asks about the width of Arkell Rd, can it be made 2 lanes both way, or just one?
    Sulatycki: Staff will have to investigate that.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:12:23

  63. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gibson suggests that staff look at a ride-in/ride-out style entrance on Victoria, might take some of the pressure off Arkell.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:14:31

  64. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie jokes in his wrap up comments: Never thought he’d hear anyone say that the south end doesn’t have enough commercial.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:15:27

  65. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The vote to receive passes 13-0. Guthrie reminds everyone that this still time for feedback. They just voted to received the application.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:17:18

  66. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There are no bylaws to be brought forward tonight. Instead, let’s talk about upcoming town halls.  https://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2017/11/upcoming-councillor-town-halls-on.html …

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:18:00

  67. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Whaaaaaaat? We’ve got a Ward 4 town hall now on Tuesday November 28 at the West End Rec Centre at 7 pm in the Lion’s Lair community room.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:20:17

  68. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie also reminds of the re-opening of Wilson Street this Saturday November 18.

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:21:33

  69. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Meeting adjourned. And now we’re all caught up. Thanks for your patience!

     

     

    Tue, Nov 14 2017 23:22:31

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