LIVE BLOG: City Council Meeting for February 15, 2017

Published on by Adam A. Donaldson

The future of Guelph Hydro will begin to be decided at tonight’s Special City Council as Shareholder of Guelph Municipal Holdings Inc. Meeting. You can click here for the amended agenda from City Hall, and you can click here to read Politico’s preview of tonight’s meeting. For the complete blow-by-blow of tonight’s council meeting, you can follow me on Twitter, or follow along below via Storify.

by
Adam A. Donaldson
Thu, Feb 16 2017 04:04:21

Guelph City Council Meeting – February 15, 2017

The Special City Council as Shareholder of Guelph Municipal Holdings Inc. Meeting begins at 6 pm

  1. You'll definitely want to stay tuned for this: council meet tonite on the future of @GuelphHydro https://t.co/489FoZ0Mst https://t.co/DApxKtxVrx

    You’ll definitely want to stay tuned for this: council meet tonite on the future of @GuelphHydro  http://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2017/02/city-council-preview-whats-on-agenda_8.html … pic.twitter.com/DApxKtxVrx
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 21:32:10

  2. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie is calling the meeting to order now.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:00:50

  3. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    First up os the presentation from the Strategies and Options Committee. DCAO Scott Stewart is beginning.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:01:42

  4. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    SOC is made up of Derrick Thomson, Pankaj Sardana, Bob Bell, Mark Goldberg of Innovation Guelph & Richard Puccini of Dillon Consulting.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:03:24

  5. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Note the absence of Derrick Thomson. He was supposed to present, and he’s on SOC…

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:04:06

  6. Looking forward to advocating to move forward to phase 2 and getting deep further analysis on the two options #guelph @guelphchamber https://t.co/9qtiDzCNi5

    Looking forward to advocating to move forward to phase 2 and getting deep further analysis on the two options #guelph @GuelphChamber pic.twitter.com/9qtiDzCNi5
    Kithio Mwanzia@chamberadvocacy

    ·
    ·

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:05:48

  7. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bob Bell (the other one) is going to walk through the “Why now?” question.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:07:10

  8. chamberadvocacy

    Kithio Mwanzia@chamberadvocacy
    Full speech to be given at Council tonight  http://www.guelphchamber.com/Presentation%20to%20Council%20-%20S%20&%20O%20Guelph%20Hydro.pdf … @GuelphChamber #guelph

    ·

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:07:24

  9. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Got positive feedback regarding Guelph Hydro overall in public consultation. “If it ain’t broke, why fix it?”

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:08:01

  10. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    This isn’t about fixing something in the short term says Bell, it’s about positioning GHESI for the future.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:08:32

  11. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “This is about being proactive, not reactive,” says Bell. There’s no predetermined outcomes either.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:09:02

  12. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The SOC committee feels it makes sense to be ahead of the curve for options, says Bell. It’s a favourable climate, several LEC doing same

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:10:55

  13. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Make that LDC: (Local Distribution Company)

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:11:33

  14. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    High hydro prices are putting a lot of pressure across all points of the supply chain, says Bell.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:11:52

  15. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Energy automation though smart phones an example of the new dynamic in the energy sector.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:14:52

  16. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    A more sophisticated business coming, not just “polls and wires” says Bell.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:16:01

  17. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Pressure on rates and infrastructure from self-generation too.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:18:43

  18. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “We’re doing this from a position of strength. A well-run, well-respected utility” says Bell. “Question isn’t to change but how and when.”

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:19:46

  19. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Pankaj Sardana, CEO, Guelph Hydro, up next. Says there’s no conversations or negations currently on the table.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:20:59

  20. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “We may not be able to address all the changes in Ontario’s energy sector,” but GHESI will cont. delivering electricity safe & reliable.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:22:00

  21. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Full ownership = no cash outlay. “We carry on,” says Pardana.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:23:26

  22. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    On the other hands, rates may go up and GHESI may not be able offer a wider range of services.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:24:27

  23. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    GHESI would have to “pay quite a premium” to buy another utility. Not one of the options SOC is recommending.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:25:51

  24. The positives/negatives for selling, which is one option that SOC is recommending. https://t.co/IYWy8o4wct

    The positives/negatives for selling, which is one option that SOC is recommending. pic.twitter.com/IYWy8o4wct
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:27:11

  25. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Any transaction (i.e. not keeping things same) have to meet the “no harm test” of the Ontario Energy Board, which still has approval.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:32:09

  26. https://t.co/a9FcyuXsAu

    pic.twitter.com/a9FcyuXsAu
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:33:28

  27. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Three areas focus on value for customers, value for the community, and value for the City.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:34:17

  28. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana says they want to treat 130 films at GHESI with respect, their jobs are at stake too.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:34:42

  29. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We’re now recapping the engagement process.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:36:10

  30. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Top concerns: frustration at current rates in ON, and concerns about the impact a potential transaction could have on rates.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:40:08

  31. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    People also want to ensure Guelph Hydro’s positive track record of efficient and reliable service is preserved.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:40:38

  32. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    A “notable segment” believed green energy development and conservation were important considerations.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:41:40

  33. Stewart is back, and we're going over what's in this chart. https://t.co/BPzbRPwqVr

    Stewart is back, and we’re going over what’s in this chart. pic.twitter.com/BPzbRPwqVr
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:43:43

  34. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Now it’s time for questions from council

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:47:01

  35. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings clarifies whether he means Qs for presentation or report. Guthrie asks for Qs on presentation, wants to get to delegates.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:47:54

  36. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Allt asks about the survey. Wondering about the size of the sample.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:50:05

  37. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    260 respondents provided “a quick read” not meat to be statistically definitive.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:50:39

  38. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks if any potential buyer or partner raised their head? Sardana says there’s been some “informal” conversations…

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:52:26

  39. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “We’re playing hard to get?” asks Allt
    “We’re playing very hard to get,” says Sardana.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:52:59

  40. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gibson asks how GHESI is gaging all the pressures on the system and addressing climate change?

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:55:34

  41. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana lists numerous means that GHESI is staying on top of the situation.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:57:55

  42. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Board of Directors puts a premium on staying on top of new developments, says (other) Bell.

    Wed, Feb 15 2017 23:59:42

  43. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson asks who is gauging the OEB’s effectiveness?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:00:49

  44. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: The OEB’s effectiveness is gauged by the province. Thinks they’ve done a good job on keeping GHESI on track.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:01:36

  45. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson asks about the consolidation phase, what happens when a consolidated GHESI gets absorbed into larger entity.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:03:26

  46. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: I don’t know, but now is the time to see what’s out there.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:03:43

  47. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: There’s no perfect time, but SOC is asking to explore the possibility.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:04:48

  48. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr MacKinnon asks how much of distribution cost is under our control.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:06:05

  49. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: That 21% is set by OEB. They set rates and scrutinize other revenue. Whole bill to customer regulated by OEB.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:06:47

  50. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Downer asks what it will take to retain the utility and keep pace with innovation.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:09:40

  51. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: We have to keep our finger on the pulse of the industry. Can’t just “kick up our heels.”

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:11:09

  52. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We’re now going to delegations. 13 in all. First up: Janice Folk-Dawson on behalf of the Guelph and District Labour Council

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:12:33

  53. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Folk-Dawson obviously speaks in favour of keeping GHESI publicly owned.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:13:35

  54. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “It serves the community interests b/c we own it,” says Folk-Dawson. That’s why they don’t gouge us while keeping the lights on.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:14:25

  55. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Folk-Dawson says many local businesses and family farms would be impacted. City would lose millions in dividends and investment.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:16:15

  56. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “The numbers just do not add up,” says Folk-Dawson. Should reject idea like Toronto. Followed by applause.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:17:04

  57. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Folk-Dawson does a mic drop and walks away before council gets to ask questions. She came back though.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:17:29

  58. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks about innovation being the leading edge of privatization. F-D says that a merge cost union jobs at CUPE 1 and CUPE 1000

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:18:48

  59. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up Peter Miller with his friend Rodrigo.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:20:49

  60. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Miller says Guelph should shirk “shameful neoliberal” trends of privatization.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:21:27

  61. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Miller repeats Folk-Dawson point that blackouts are resolved faster by publicly owned companies than private.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:23:28

  62. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No Qs for Miller, @chamberadvocacy is up next, but Guthrie first asks to keep clapping to a minimum.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:26:52

  63. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia takes object to Guthrie asking ppl to stop clapping before he spoke. 😉

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:27:30

  64. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia says energy policy is “at a critical tipping point”, and endorses report for offer “clear and analytical path forward.”

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:28:43

  65. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mwanzia recommends that council move forward with all 3 recommendations, and that SOC focus on cost, reliability, and competitiveness too

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:31:12

  66. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up is Ron East.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:34:14

  67. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Merging or selling is fraught with potential conflict. Selling makes us tenants and a few will benefit at expense of community, East says.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:35:56

  68. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    East making a case for Guelph Hydro getting on the solar revolution.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:38:29

  69. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guelphites “want to be authors of their own destiny” says East.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:39:03

  70. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Ted Pritchard is up next. He did an episode of the Guelph Politicast ( http://guelphpolitico.blogspot.ca/2016/11/guelph-politicast-57-ted-pritchard-fair.html …) He’s against.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:40:26

  71. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Pritchard wanted to see a extra recommendation to pursue the costs of maintaining the status quo.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:40:57

  72. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Pritchard says sale and merger talk has to be sensible, but a lot of people in the community aren’t in favour of the idea.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:42:04

  73. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Donna Jennison is up next. Concerned that merger would make the new utility more attractive for privatization down the road.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:44:20

  74. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Jennison is listing a lot of examples of failed privatization projects in Ontario. Worse service, enormous salaries and corruption, she says

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:46:40

  75. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “No convincing overall benefits of P3s” she adds.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:47:11

  76. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, Steve Dyck of Guelph Solar. He’s the halfway point of the delegates.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:50:22

  77. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dyck says he thinks we should stop now, even though he briefly teased with merger.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:50:53

  78. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dyck, Hydro One is the worst LDC in Ontario. Not sure how we’ll get better service out of being part of bigger LDC.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:51:48

  79. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dyck says “defection” is not a high risk to Hydro in the immediate future. There real concern is more usage.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:52:18

  80. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Heard it here first: Dyck says in four years, no more gas-powered being sold.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:52:40

  81. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dyck doesn’t see a rush to merge, although he admits he’s not an expert. Merging means losing control though.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:53:42

  82. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson asks Dyck about solar status: is it about choice or is it about defection?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:55:52

  83. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dyck says there’s going to be more use, doesn’t see people getting off the grid b/c winter.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:57:03

  84. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks about Dyck’s experience, does he do public sector, or just private?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:58:17

  85. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dyck says he does a lot of co-operative work for solar co-ops. Adds that selling GHESI won’t keep rates low for businesses.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 00:59:05

  86. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon asks about local connections Dyck mentioned. The disruptive tech coming is local, and thus can stabilize local grid, says Dyck.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:01:12

  87. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up, Paul Costello. He’s also against privatization. More money for less efficiency, he says.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:09:00

  88. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Costello says “windfall” from privatizing could be used as an excuse for downloading more onto the City.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:10:49

  89. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Terry O’Connor not here, so we’re jumping over him for Hugh Whiteley.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:11:48

  90. Whiteley offers a fourth recommendation: https://t.co/LGaZm02A5z

    Whiteley offers a fourth recommendation: pic.twitter.com/LGaZm02A5z
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:13:11

  91. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The count so far:
    Delegates for sale/merger: 1
    Delegates for status quo: 8

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:16:33

  92. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Whiteley says the most important element to community is having local/public utility.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:17:14

  93. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up is Dr. Dennis Galon, looks like he might be the last delegate.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:17:51

  94. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Dr. Galon says size matters, but cost increases with size.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:18:38

  95. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Back during Horizon merger talks it was said Guelph had to merge 10x its size for the option to make sense.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:19:17

  96. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Size alone causes costs to increase, according to the research of Dr. Dennis Galon.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:21:37

  97. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    1 more: Kari Clifford on behalf of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 636 (Unionized Employees of Guelph Hydro)

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:27:20

  98. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clifford here to give a face and a voice to the Hydro employees. Have given make to the community thru United Way & Cancer Society.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:28:09

  99. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Clifford: Where once there were 300 LDC’s there are now 70.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:28:47

  100. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “A strong and vital voice with a lot of important employees… I think we’re doing well as we are right now.” said Clifford

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:34:19

  101. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Van Hellemond thanks Kari Clifford for her delegation. Gibson asks for it in writing.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:34:57

  102. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Taking a 10 minute break. Council’s been going for 155 minutes now…

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:35:35

  103. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council is back!

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:46:58

  104. The recommendations before council: https://t.co/w1mJbqaiOm

    The recommendations before council: pic.twitter.com/w1mJbqaiOm
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:48:07

  105. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings wants to know where the savings are coming from if we merge?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:48:55

  106. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Assuming it’s w/ neighbouring utility it would be with overhead and common functions.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:49:29

  107. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: for a merger to be worthwhile, it would have to save a minimum of 5%. Not a specific opportunity in front us so tough 2 quantify

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:51:54

  108. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks about GHESI reliability. Guelph is one of the top utilities.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:54:14

  109. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings is wondering about companies looking to buy, aren’t they thinking about the future too?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:55:38

  110. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana says they’re limiting remarks to what they’re seeing today. A lot of ifs out there. GHESI premiums *might* decline in future but…

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 01:56:32

  111. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks if there’s costs if council pulls the plug on these options down the line? Yes, there will be some.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:01:19

  112. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings: If we want to have control, don’t we have to be at 50% ownership? Sardana: I think that’s accurate.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:02:24

  113. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Thomson was in Mississauga on “official city business” says DCAO Stewart. Just in case we were wondering.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:03:05

  114. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: Many of the costs incurred will be in phase 2, when we get into phase 3 the costs get spread around.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:03:53

  115. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings says if people want to sell, then tonight is the night, right?
    Sardana: Yes, going down this path is very serious business.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:04:49

  116. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: “We don’t to go down this path with another party and for this to not be serious.”

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:05:14

  117. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings: Do we have to do this right now?
    Sardana: There’s nothing to say sell or merge rgt now. Biz is solid. Future = ?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:06:05

  118. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: “How do we future proof this utility? Let’s do this now b/c we’ve got the time”

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:06:39

  119. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana says the challenge with our size is to keep finding savings to deliver returns.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:11:20

  120. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks if Guelph might be able to hold a veto in case of merger does something not within our values.
    Sardana: Could be negotiated.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:16:20

  121. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt: Is there a financial advantage to doing this now?
    Sardana: As an investor I would never recommend a deal for tax reasons.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:18:05

  122. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell (the council one) puts the motion not he floor. Seconded by Hofland.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:18:56

  123. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell says he doesn’t want to lose control of the utility, citizens seem to feel the same. Won’t support.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:19:33

  124. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell says he doesn’t think there’s a good business case, agrees with Steve Dyck that consumption will increase.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:20:46

  125. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In other news, Bell is “lukewarm” on merger.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:21:18

  126. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell offers an amendment to 1b: merger with neighbouring utility and 50% control maintained.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:23:02

  127. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says restrictions before negotiations take you out of the market. Won’t accept amendment.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:24:16

  128. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks Bell if North Waterloo counts as “neighbouring”?
    Bell: “I have no desire to pursue” mergers w/o 50% share.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:25:32

  129. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana says this limits the merger opportunities to 3: Cambridge, Halton Hills and 1 other.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:27:20

  130. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says the motion might be eliminating some “dance partners” before hand.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:28:05

  131. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    But if 50% is important to council, the SOC will factor that into the discussion.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:28:27

  132. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie questions the difference between “local” and “neighbouring”; the SOC definition of “Local” is more expansive.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:29:37

  133. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein makes the point that Guelph won’t get 50% control in a three-way merger.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:36:51

  134. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    First vote up, and amendment to get Guelph veto power in future mergers after a merger.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:37:31

  135. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Amendment fails 4-9.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:37:48

  136. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Back to original Bell amendment, now to be separated: neighbouring and 50%.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:38:37

  137. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says its good that all personal opinions should be put on the table so that they can no where everyone’s at now.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:39:35

  138. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury has several questions about mergers (with neighbouring utilities).

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:43:21

  139. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Any examples in Ontario where large LDC were able to address distruptive tech where smaller LDCs couldn’t? asks Salisbury.
    tl;dr: No

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:45:38

  140. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury: How about all of North America?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:46:08

  141. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: “I’m sure there are examples,” and they want to look at that in phase 2.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:46:30

  142. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury: Should that have not been a consideration of phase 1?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:46:48

  143. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Other Bell: SOC wouldn’t bring anything back to council without looking at all the options.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:47:34

  144. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie tries to steer Salisbury back to questions, and back to questions on the motion.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:55:10

  145. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There are a # of operation challenges we’re spending on day in and day out … some of those problems go away when you’re bigger. Sardana

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:58:06

  146. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    MacKinnon won’t be supporting. Amendment is too limiting and vague.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:58:43

  147. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Neighbouring” amendment fails 3-10.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 02:59:19

  148. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt and MacKinnon agree. 50% number is too limiting, back to Wettstein reference of 3-way merger.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:00:22

  149. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer asks what happens if we take the sale part out.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:01:33

  150. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sardana: That’s council’s purview if they want to approve 1, both or neither option.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:02:20

  151. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon notes there was low level support for sale in the public feedback portion.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:06:44

  152. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon asks on behalf of constituents: wasn’t our input valued?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:07:41

  153. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: These are preliminary findings, and most feedback so far has been voluntary in nature, but thinks council wants a statistical balance

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:09:04

  154. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    According to Gordon, he’s heard from no one in the public in favour of selling.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:09:56

  155. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The engagement so far has been on decision making criteria. Haven’t heard yet from stakeholders on various options directly.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:11:27

  156. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon suggests caution. People have taken time to bring comments forward, they want transparency.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:12:21

  157. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury isn’t satisfied with what he’s heard back on the benefits of merger.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:12:58

  158. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury got a nagging feeling that council is being pushed to accept that change is better than the status quo.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:13:49

  159. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says his opinion has been confirmed by the feedback he’s gotten from delegations tonight.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:16:40

  160. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “I can’t see a path forward where electricity use doesn’t go up.” says Gibson.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:17:16

  161. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says he’ll support a merger to remain competitive.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:18:33

  162. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper also notes distaste for sale, notes the motion currently stands as only merger and sale.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:19:31

  163. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also one area LDC is Hydro One, which is not 100% publicly owned. Add an amendment to merge only with public utility.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:20:32

  164. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper amendent passes 10-3, publicly owned is a component of 1b.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:21:41

  165. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein is skeptical that sale is going to get very far, but doesn’t want to limit the possible options.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:23:01

  166. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie about to call the vote as amended on 1a and 1b.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:26:21

  167. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Things are changing, says Guthrie. Not the first time council has looked at assets and Guelph should be proud of that.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:26:54

  168. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie notes that the money spent investing this is almost the same as the amount spent to deal with District Energy.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:28:03

  169. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    If it doesn’t work, I’ll be the first one to hit that no button, says Guthrie, but wants to know its the right thing.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:29:08

  170. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on 1a: fails 5-8. Sale is off the table with only Allt, Guthrie, Hofland, MacKinnon, and Wettstein voting for.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:30:59

  171. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on 1b passes10-3. Bell, Billings, and Salisbury vote against.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:31:31

  172. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Point #2 will be amended to remove the word “sale” but Wettstein feels uncertain about “doing half the job”

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:32:40

  173. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council votes 13-0 to remove sale from wording of point #2 a, b and c.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:33:36

  174. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Point 2 passes 12-1 (Salisbury votes against)

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:33:55

  175. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie gets feedback on point #3 in terms of public feedback. How can we embed community feedback survey into the report?

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:34:46

  176. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: Haven’t figured out community engagement angle, but Energizing Tomorrow site will remain plus more outreach.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:35:46

  177. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Point #3 passes 13-0.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:36:27

  178. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Community knows that we’re only going the one way now, and that’s good says Guthrie.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:37:04

  179. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    So the meeting’s adjourned. tl;dr – no sale. City looking at merger as possible change. Status quo still an option.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:37:41

  180. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    PS: In lieu of a Facebook Live post game video, we’ll be talking about tonite’s meet on tomorrow’s @OS_Guelph.

    Thu, Feb 16 2017 03:50:11

 

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