LIVE BLOG: Committee of the Whole for March 6, 2017

Published on by Adam A. Donaldson

It’s going to be an action-packed agenda for this month’s committee. You can click herefor the amended agenda from City Hall, and you can click here to read Politico’s preview of today’s meeting. For the complete blow-by-blow of today’s committee meeting, you can follow me on Twitter, or follow along below via Storify.

by
Adam A. Donaldson
Sat, Apr 01 2017 03:04:01

Committee-of-the-Whole Meeting – March 6, 2017

Live blog from the meeting starting at 2 pm

  1. Stay tuned for the start of today's Committee-of-the-Whole coverage on #GuelphPolitico. https://t.co/jqAwuBCf7s

    Stay tuned for the start of today’s Committee-of-the-Whole coverage on #GuelphPolitico. pic.twitter.com/jqAwuBCf7s
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 18:55:30

  2. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Closed meeting topic: Public appointments to various committees, and development options for Hanlon Creek Biz Park

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 18:57:12

  3. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council has begun to gather. Mayor Guthrie says 5 min break before we begin.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:03:42

  4. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    On closed meeting items: direction given to staff on both items.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:10:22

  5. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No Disclosure of Pecuniary Interest and General Nature Thereof. Full house in attendance today.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:10:56

  6. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Non-Application of Line Fences Act passes 13-0.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:11:38

  7. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The 2 sign bylaw variances, and the outstanding motions of IDE passed 13-0 by consent.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:13:57

  8. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    We’re starting with Natural Heritage Action Plan Project injection. Hugh Whiteley is delegating.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:15:41

  9. Staff providing brief intro. https://t.co/r13FkRwMDg

    Staff providing brief intro. pic.twitter.com/r13FkRwMDg
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:16:51

  10. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Consultation activities will include all stakeholders says staff.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:18:59

  11. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “The unwashed valley that could,” is the title of the story Whiteley would tell if he had time.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:19:49

  12. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Whiteley asks council not to approve plan until they’ve adopted Greenspace charter, integrated open space planning & devel. O.S. action plan

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:21:34

  13. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Whiteley says this plan replaces a community lead project with an internal-staff project.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:22:51

  14. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Gordon asks Whiteley why his points would not be considered moving forward rather than stopping?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:26:36

  15. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Natural Heritage definition constrains options, says Whiteley.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:27:01

  16. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Rigidity of the natural heritage” definition applied arbitrarily says Whiteley.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:28:10

  17. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    No more Qs for Whiteley, back to council and Guthrie wants to know if “open space planning is dead” as Whiteley implied.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:30:22

  18. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Parks Dept says there are “elements” of Open Space Planning in the next couple of years.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:31:42

  19. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Trails master plan, Downtown 2ndary plan, and others are example of Open Spaces planning integrated in other plans says staff.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:32:28

  20. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Mayor Guthrie asks why we’re implanting something almost 3 years later (despite OMB and other lags).

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:33:21

  21. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: Reason is resources. Site specific approvals and other matters of process.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:34:24

  22. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff is comfortable with the resources at this time. They’re identifying actions and outcomes and needs budget.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:35:00

  23. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Downer asks staff if they’re open to doing a Green Space charter.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:42:28

  24. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: We’ll listen to what stakeholders have to say, this is about adopted existing stakeholder policy.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:42:57

  25. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Hofland says she’s “not feeling the public consultation” even though they’re just approving the project charter today.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:49:10

  26. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: Community engagement plan is the next step after charter approval.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:49:32

  27. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says once the charter is approved, there will be list of all projects connected to this on the website. Promises it will “impress.”

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:52:11

  28. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer reminds council that this comes out of official plan, which had extensive consultations, now talking about implementing.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:52:49

  29. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell says there’s something wrong with open space planning, but not sure what it is…

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:54:20

  30. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    … There seems to be a problem at the City in terms of handling our public lands.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:55:04

  31. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says this has been “a long hard road”. It’s legacy work.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:56:13

  32. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Natural Heritage Action Plan passes 13-0.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:58:04

  33. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sidewalks Needs Assessment next. Q from Cllr Bell.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:58:32

  34. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell’s had number of calls about lack of sidewalks in certain areas. Why were some included and others not?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:58:59

  35. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    1) Stevenson St., hasn’t been update on east from Elizabeth.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 19:59:47

  36. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: There maybe some segments that they didn’t catch. This maybe one of those. A reality when doing an inventory like this.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:01:04

  37. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff will re-evaluate this list as they go along.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:01:26

  38. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell asks someone to look at Stevenson, Metcalfe before this comes to council at end of the month.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:02:15

  39. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks if staff will bring forth changes to the assessment as they happen, or not.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:07:17

  40. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: committee is approving the criteria more than the list. The list is a “very 1st cut” it terms of what’s required.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:08:02

  41. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie on Imperial N sidewalks: A lot of people walk to ARC industries (speaking of pedestrian generators.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:16:12

  42. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Multiuse plans will be Id’ed thru cycling and active transport master plans.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:16:48

  43. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Instead of giving you Ward 2’s list” Gordon asks, what do councillors do when they get asked about specific sidewalks?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:18:16

  44. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Got feedback on priority segments thru public consultations. Criteria came from that too so future requests will be put thru it.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:18:57

  45. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “I think it’s clear sidewalks are important,” Chair Gibson says after 1/2 hour of discussion on the topic

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:25:58

  46. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie glad to see municipal money going to municipal issues.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:26:16

  47. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sidewalk Needs Assessment Update passes 13-0

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:26:35

  48. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next, Gordon asks Q about Annual Summary Water Services Report. 21.1% less water at Arkell Springs from ’16 to ’15. Asks about impact.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:27:32

  49. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Recharge is offline for repairs, but there is an element from drought too. But primarily to improve system.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:28:16

  50. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland points out that Water Services’ report is meeting its mandate.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:28:59

  51. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Water Services Report passed 13-0.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:30:55

  52. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Next up 2017 Corporate Asset Management Plan and Policy.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:31:16

  53. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Daryusg Esmaili, Manager of Corporate Asset Management presenting.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:32:07

  54. https://t.co/IOIvyCoilv

    pic.twitter.com/IOIvyCoilv
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:34:07

  55. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    @adamadonaldson That’s Daryush Esmaili.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 20:34:44

  56. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie asks if the $191 M infrastructure backlog is correct, or if the # is closer to 1/2 billion?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:04:22

  57. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Since backlog est. down, significant new data’s been developed across org. and this comes from market value assessment.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:04:57

  58. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The number will adjust again as we go deeper into the asset management “journey”.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:05:28

  59. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie: To confirm, that does not include city building.
    Esmaili: Theoretically, yes.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:06:01

  60. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Esmaili says that the best practice is to come back with updates on asset mgmt ever 5 years, intends to update every year.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:08:34

  61. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Updates will be on website and report to council too.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:08:58

  62. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Scott Stewart says that #Guelph leadership on Asset mgmt gone to the “head of the pack”. We were behind. “We don’t play 2nd fiddle anymore.”

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:11:18

  63. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks if there’s 2 full-time staff doing this work. There is.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:15:50

  64. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Chair Gibson says most important to be keenly aware that there’s finite level of funding. Harmonization is key.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:22:17

  65. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Asset Management Plan passes 12-0 (MacKinnon stepped out).

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:22:58

  66. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    So now we’re on break till 4:45. See you then.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:23:30

  67. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    And we’re back with the Transportation Master Plan

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:46:17

  68. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    City’s been relying on the 2005 Guelph-Wellington Master Plan, which expires in ’21. Time for an update.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:48:09

  69. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Focuses on walking, biking and transit. Includes ride sharing too.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:48:30

  70. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Automobiles will be the choice for many in short and medium term, says staff.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:49:01

  71. Like active transit in #Guelph? Here's a scary trend: https://t.co/9MhQjJo3Ll

    Like active transit in #Guelph? Here’s a scary trend: pic.twitter.com/9MhQjJo3Ll
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:56:11

  72. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Major tech advances coming. I.e. driverless vehicles.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 21:58:22

  73. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    #Guelph is predominately suburban, so we have to work around that, staff.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:00:23

  74. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Operational aspects of transit and parking, intersection, site analysis not part of the study.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:01:09

  75. Here's the steering committee for the Transportation Master Plan: https://t.co/ZAfgWlyejT

    Here’s the steering committee for the Transportation Master Plan: pic.twitter.com/ZAfgWlyejT
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:03:55

  76. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The plan will take 18-24 months to compile.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:04:11

  77. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie asks about timetable, wants to get something done before the next election.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:04:47

  78. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McIlveen: the 2005 study began in 2002/3, so the timetable is kind of set regardless of 2018 elxn.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:05:25

  79. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says the extension of Stone Rd needs to be reconsidered as part of this. Will be bringing forth a motion to that effect.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:08:00

  80. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gordon says he’s disappointed that car owner #’s are up, but the stats from 2011, any anecdotal treads in interim?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:08:47

  81. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McIlveen: Waiting for results from 2016 survey, may not see it today, but maybe in next 5 years.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:09:21

  82. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper also disappointed that transit #’s have gone down, but important to know with transit changes coming that they’re make good decisions

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:10:41

  83. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks about integrated regional transit plans, will that be a part of the study?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:15:09

  84. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “It’s our hope” says McIlveen. GRT could be part of convo, golden horseshoe as well could be discussed.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:15:47

  85. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Metrolinx is also part of the discussion, the City has regular contact with them.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:16:31

  86. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks about being in contact with private carriers like Greyhound.
    McIlveen: Yes, wants to look at that too.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:17:26

  87. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt asks about “appropriate governance”

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:19:29

  88. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: This process will follow a similar one to a construction project. Multiple depts, cover the entire corp.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:20:13

  89. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks about the next steps.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:21:44

  90. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Consultants will be hired. 1st step was to give council framework, give feedback, and then hire consultant.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:22:57

  91. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks why a 20 year plan when there’s so much uncertainty.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:23:14

  92. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Need a road map to know where you’re heading, need the elements in place to meet the future.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:23:51

  93. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bell would like the consultant to identify why the City keeps falling short of its goals rather than getting all info at once.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:26:38

  94. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Kealy Dedman says it is possible to have info brought back in a phased process.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:28:20

  95. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings ask about the philosophy of the framework, not much has changed: more cycle, more transit, fewer cars…

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:31:29

  96. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McIlveen says there’s an opportunity here to go forward. Thinks the goals can be better accomplished now.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:32:26

  97. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    2011-2016 data will come out next year. Comes from the province. McIlveen says the data should show improve on goals.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:33:22

  98. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks if public has been asked first so that they can inform the framework.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:34:10

  99. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    McIlveen there will be “substantial” engagement with the public once the consultant’s ben brought onboard.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:34:39

  100. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: We have to be cautious about this data. Doesn’t give a full picture, but good to compare year over year.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:37:49

  101. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also #’s would be worse without work year over year.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:38:06

  102. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer asks if this is strategy to feed into current official plan, or planning for the next? A: It’s both.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:42:36

  103. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    The Stone Rd expansion not in the current official plan, says Downer, that needs to be addressed.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:42:58

  104. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “That will need some public response… There’s a red flag around that issue,” says Downer on Stone Rd extension.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:44:52

  105. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says we need to think carefully about where to put Stone Rd extension. I

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:46:02

  106. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    If we’re to “play around with that” might affect Hanlon interchanges

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:46:13

  107. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    DCAO Stewart warns not to embed these things from the official plan into a Transport Master plan.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:47:59

  108. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: We can ask consultant to look at “unintended consequences”, wants to make sure we’re not pre-emting other work.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:50:30

  109. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Derrick Thomson: Council has to give direction through a motion to look at different framework.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:52:13

  110. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In other words, “$#!% or get off the pot.”

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:52:48

  111. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury points out that this could be left as direction to staff, but Stewart would prefer a motion.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:54:07

  112. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie wants to move things along, call a motion to what’s in front of council and move on to his motion.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:54:59

  113. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says need an “intellectually honest moment,” cars aren’t going away, but we want to move to alternatives.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:55:35

  114. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on Transportation Master Plan Framework: passes 12-0.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:56:47

  115. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie’s motion: Hopes it’s high level enough and exploratory enough to pass.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:57:08

  116. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Basically: go out and have a look, talk to people, and figure what we’re going to do. RE: Stone Rd extension to Elmira Rd, plus Watson.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:57:59

  117. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper asks to separate Watson to Woodlawn, dead set against Stone Rd though b/c of all past reasons.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 22:58:51

  118. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks about the timetable. Guthrie says at the same time the TMP is done, but wants to underline word “explore”

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:02:51

  119. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart notes we’re doing this on the fly and maybe we’re not getting good answers on this matter.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:08:09

  120. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury: Tell us the scope of what we’re getting into – OMB, MTO, et al – we want to know that before we put it into the plan.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:10:09

  121. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: We can pass what’s here now, and then get more info on the new motions before the council meeting on 03/27

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:12:17

  122. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Downer says this is backwards, if the study says we need another link to Highway #24, that’s the time to look at options.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:13:40

  123. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    IOW: We’re already looking at the solution when a problem hasn’t been identified yet.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:14:15

  124. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie motion withdrawn, so we’re moving on to Pedestrian Crossing Treatments.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:18:31

  125. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There were changes in pedestrian crossover installations, so the City will explore where and what to implement in a reporting coming Q3

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:25:19

  126. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Drivers and cyclists must yield right of way to pedestrians until they’ve crossed the road. Good luck with that.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:27:10

  127. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks for info about cost difference between pedestrian stop lights and other x-walks.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:28:27

  128. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cost between $20-60K due to all the work involved, says McIlveen. X-over a “standalone facility.”

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:29:20

  129. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks about research between x-overs and stop lights. McIlveen says they use the x-over devices out east, and west.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:30:59

  130. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also being used in Kitchener and Hamilton, another safety device in the tool box, says McIlveen.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:31:47

  131. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also, these measures are designed for lower speed and lower volume roads.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:32:25

  132. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    There will also be an extensive campaign to make the public aware of new signals. Hence the wait…

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:36:06

  133. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Van Hellemond clarifies about the conditions. Emphasis is on volume of road, how many pedestrians travel per hour, speed limit, etc.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:37:11

  134. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson asks about funding for awareness campaign since this is provincial mandate. Nope, it’s coming from city.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:38:55

  135. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Presentation from Stewart on Delegation of Authority for Infrastructure, Development and Enterprise Services

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:39:30

  136. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Less red tape, more red carpet,” says Stewart.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:39:53

  137. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    These are administrative, and not relieving council of any powers. Want to keep council focus on strategic matters.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:41:42

  138. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also, council (and the public) will still be updated along with the way.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:42:07

  139. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper points out that there are occasions where council has added conditions to sign by-law b/c of input from constituents

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:43:38

  140. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also, council has talked about doing a comprehensive sign bylaw review. A lot of changes in this area last 10 years.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:44:12

  141. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Is a sign bylaw review in the work plan in the next two years?

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:45:19

  142. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Sign bylaw review coming later this year, says staff. “We certainly feel there’s a need for it… It’s a big undertaking.” Coming in 2018.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:46:16

  143. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper puts motion on floor defer clause three until sign bylaw review completed.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:46:46

  144. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Piper amendment passes 12-0. Other 3 points left to vote on.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:47:39

  145. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson moves to set a cap at $5 million on clause #1 so that council can maintain some oversight.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:53:07

  146. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Bob Bell goes lower with a $3 million cap. Van Hellemond seconds.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:55:25

  147. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says we’re splitting hairs, $5 million captures vast majorities of projects that this might come up under.

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:56:25

  148. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie says this is like a pilot project, reports will come back to council on progress, would rather focus on cutting that 2-4 week window

    Mon, Mar 06 2017 23:58:26

  149. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    City clerk notes that this motion has to do with scheduling. Caps would have to be changed under purchasing bylaw.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:00:06

  150. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says we need to expedite business in Guelph, and this move is to the betterment of all.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:01:45

  151. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on $3 M cap amendment: fails 9-3 (Bell, Billings, Van Hellemond vote in favour).

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:04:13

  152. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie wants to clarify: these are mostly road projects, already approved in budget. also engineering matters.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:04:57

  153. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on $5 M cap: fails 8-4 (same 3 with Gibson).

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:05:54

  154. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Vote on items 1,2 and 4 passes 8-4 (Bell, Billings, Gibson and Van Hellemond vote against)

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:06:41

  155. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Attached to agenda are about 100 correspondences in favour of Gibson motion about Commercial Growth in East #Guelph:  http://guelph.ca/wp-content/uploads/cow_consolidated-agenda_030617.pdf …

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:12:37

  156. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Council’s back with East End Commercial Growth motion.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:17:23

  157. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says he wants to make sure we’re talking about what’s in the motion, and not what isn’t.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:18:11

  158. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says that Cllr Bell’s phone has been ringing too. Council has shown support for the east end all term and it’s appreciated.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:20:31

  159. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says there’s duplication it the motion, but will make sure that there’s no work for staff and not duplicating efforts

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:21:37

  160. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland asks about risks to the development industry. Stewart says he’s not sure there’s risk.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:22:38

  161. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland: Are there legal implications for the OMB concerning precedent of setting one neighbourhood against the other.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:23:33

  162. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: there’s nothing here to appeal.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:23:49

  163. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: We’re not reporting mack on every single phone call, it has to get in line with the rest of the work we’re doing.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:24:43

  164. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt concerned about raising false expectations in the neighbourhood, concerned what staff can do beyond what they’re doing now.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:25:47

  165. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt: Short term = next 5 years.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:26:23

  166. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart: It will be on the latter part of 5 year timeline, also council is not in control of all of this.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:26:55

  167. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Referring to @PhilAlltWard3:  https://twitter.com/CoachJCummings/status/838908727264706560 …

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:27:36

  168. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “We have a council that’s very interested in moving this thing along and you may not be the only game in town,” Stewart on message to Loblaw

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:30:10

  169. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says #1 commercial issue for all of council is grocery store in the east end.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:32:02

  170. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    He was concerned with policy changes that could be read into it.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:32:17

  171. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says he’s not sure what this can do beyond commercial policy review, wishes he had more one-on-one w/ Ward 1 councillors tho.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:33:06

  172. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury disagrees with the idea that he’s against commercial development in east end.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:33:29

  173. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt wants to hear from others on council. Admits they’re hamstrung by market forces.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:33:54

  174. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury asks if staff will be considering the point of the motion even without the motion?

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:36:22

  175. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    That would be presuming the outcome of the study, says staff, but it will be considered.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:37:36

  176. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff: it highlights the issue.
    Salisbury: What does that mean?

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:38:32

  177. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    East end is an area were well aware of, says staff in considering the overall commercial policy.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:39:02

  178. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says “little to no real impact” is not the message he’s getting from other developers.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:39:35

  179. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Concerned there will be political repercussions from the development community.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:39:59

  180. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says he’s got no feedback like that.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:40:15

  181. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says developer’s he talked to don’t want to speak on the issue b/c they might feel repercussions.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:41:04

  182. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Thomson says that’s unfair to staff. This comes from council, and asks that political points be kept among councillors.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:41:38

  183. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury: Is it possible that this might show Loblaw the opposite and we’re moving off without them?
    Stewart: Anything’s possible/

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:44:39

  184. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Salisbury says this is a purely political message and could adversely offend the east end.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:45:52

  185. Yet, here are all the correspondences of people that feel differently. pic.twitter.com/U47lkFYQ04
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:47:00

  186. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says if they get a grocery store going in the east end, then this term will be a success.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:47:34

  187. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein: If they [Loblaw] really wants residential, they could wait us out. In Ward 6, they made sure to follow process.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:49:03

  188. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Already had an experience with Lafarge site at OMB, opposition could use this as a case against the City.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:50:24

  189. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein says the message is being heard loud and clear right now even w/o voting on the motion.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:52:51

  190. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt says this is symbolic motion, not going to deliver grocery store tmrw, but still a dilemma b/c of Salisbury’s points.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:53:52

  191. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Allt say council feels like they got a raw deal, and Loblaw feels like they got a raw deal b/c of OMB on Walmart decision.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:54:27

  192. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “Damned if we do, damned if we don’t,” adds Allt.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:54:43

  193. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson: Aside from Starwood/Watson, the only commercial space left for grocery store is York land. Once it’s gone, it’s gone.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:57:05

  194. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Yes, it’s political, says Gibson, but also a necessity.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:57:19

  195. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks about timeline for commercial policy review.
    A: 18-24 months.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:58:05

  196. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings asks about contact with Loblaw since last council meeting.
    Stewart: Nope.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:58:28

  197. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings sympathetic due to struggle getting grocery store built in south end. Does developer have problem with urban design guidelines?

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:59:29

  198. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says no.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 00:59:48

  199. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff says they are seeing progress. Minor discussion around urban design guidelines can’t be hugely influential in major development.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:00:50

  200. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings unsure if this has teeth, but it’s high level and “better than nothing.”

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:01:35

  201. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also the motion highlights the York Rd lands, and maybe it will do something so Billings will support.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:02:26

  202. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says if this is going to help the east end, she will support.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:02:54

  203. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Staff has informal discussions all the time with potential investors, nothing formal for York lands yet.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:03:46

  204. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Cllr Bell commends Gibson’s work on the motion, and staff input.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:04:25

  205. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    A win for Loblaw, a win for residents and a win for council says Bell on the trifecta here.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:05:16

  206. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein offers compromise, keep point 1, lose point 2.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:06:40

  207. This is the complete recommendation, btw. https://t.co/fwJtqS135n

    This is the complete recommendation, btw. pic.twitter.com/fwJtqS135n
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:07:15

  208. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    In point #1, Wettstein wants to replace “be directed” with “continue”

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:08:03

  209. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Also removes everything after “York Road Intensification Corridor.”

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:09:52

  210. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson says he’s “at the water’s edge” of the staff’s work plan. He worked very hard on the original wording.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:10:25

  211. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Hofland says that she would like to see consensus, acknowledges Gibson’s work but unanimous vote will send powerful message.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:12:54

  212. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Billings would prefer recommendation as written but will support if staff endorses it.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:16:06

  213. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    “The amendment gives me no more or less pause than was originally written” says Stewart.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:16:32

  214. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie acknowledges Gibson’s work, and the wording changes sends the same message.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:17:12

  215. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Guthrie wants to send message to east end with the weight of council behind it. Doesn’t want Gibson/Bell to feel work diminished.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:17:47

  216. The motion. https://t.co/7tW0gGQ9Bp

    The motion. pic.twitter.com/7tW0gGQ9Bp
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:19:16

  217. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Gibson asks to see the motion, is will to concede to new wording when he sees it written.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:19:23

  218. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Stewart says he feels like the new wording is accomplishing the same thing as the original wording.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:21:20

  219. @adamadonaldson Wettstein's amendment - hoping for unanimous support. https://t.co/4Pu9v4wCnh

    @adamadonaldson Wettstein’s amendment – hoping for unanimous support. pic.twitter.com/4Pu9v4wCnh
    Phil Allt@PhilAlltWard3

    ·
    ·

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:21:28

  220. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein is prepared to risk that ppl will see this for what it is, a way to help get grocery store in ease end as quickly as possible.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:22:34

  221. Unanimous vote on the amended wording. https://t.co/ivrJWS4ADj

    Unanimous vote on the amended wording. pic.twitter.com/ivrJWS4ADj
    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    ·

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:23:48

  222. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Part 2 of the recommendation passes 11-1 (Wettstein against).

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:25:25

  223. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    Wettstein said that part 2 was more “dangerous” than part 1, but the rest of council disagreed.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:26:01

  224. adamadonaldson

    Adam A. Donaldson@adamadonaldson
    That’s it. Committee is adjourned. Thanks for following along.

    Tue, Mar 07 2017 01:26:31

Leave a comment